"File Save" does "Save-As" instead

[mallen1330]

Using PSP X8 version: 18.0.0.124 x64. Working on an existing image, when I save, the "Save-as" form pops up and warns that a file with the existing name exists. I must click "Yes" that I want to over-write it. These extra steps are adding time to my work flow. Is there a setting that I'm missing? Note that I have "Auto Preserve" off. I've even tried turning off ALL warnings to test.

[Ken Berry]

No this is a bug we are already aware of and drawn to Corel's attention. They say they are working on it.

[Dypsis]

Yes, I just noticed this bug also.

[hartpaul]

Someone suggested in another thread that this was a deliberate new feature in PSP.
It is very similar to Photoshop in that the dialog for compression comes up after you have committed to save,
Is this the Corel people currying up to Photoshop users trying to make it similar to Photoshop.

I much prefer it the way it was back in earlier versions and I find the optimum was back around PSP X2 which I still use for power processing of lots of images.

So my process is:
1. Load up to 15 images in windowed mode (drag and drop from a windows folder which now becomes the default save location as well)
2. I have a small customised toolbar with my most used adjustments including Levels, Brightness and Contrast, Red/Green/Blue, Hue/Saturation/Lightness, Unsharp Mask.
3. Click the Levels button, make the slight adjustment and then press the enter key (accept default). Use other buttons if required. Hit the X at top right of the window to close it and get the dialog which asks "Save changes to..." and the Yes is highlighted as the default so hitting the Enter key again saves at the last used compression setting.
So my first one in a group of perhaps a hundred images I use the Save As button on the top underneath the Menu bar and set the compression.

With PSP X8 I can no longer do that :
First the default highlighted OK button for Levels is broken (it has been since X4 with the Levels adjustment) and you have to click OK with the mouse. Then the clicking the X to close the image and pressing the Enter key diverts to the Save As dialog box for every image. Here the Save button is the default, but pressing the enter key brings up the new dialog to say the image already exists and do I want to replace it with "No" as the default, so continued pressing of the Enter key goes around in a loop . Makes it all so slow when processing a large number of images with slight different adjustments to each one.

[MarkZ]

In my opinion this is Corel's quickie solution to the complaint voiced over the last few years that the compression factor was too great and fixed for "Save". We had asked to be able to set the compression ratio, perhaps under Properties. We need to be aware what the compression ratio is. The current "solution" works but, as indicated earlier, is awkward.

[Ken Berry]

In fact I have just received a message from the exec in charge of PSP development which confirms the speculation that this was done deliberately by Corel for the sorts of reasons outlined above:

Hi Ken:

Thank you for forwarding this behaviour concern. In fact, we made this change so that the user can “decide” what JPEG quality will be saved while they are editing a JPEG image. In X7, when you are editing a JPEG image and just click the “Save” button, PSP always uses a 20% compression rate to save the JPEG file directly, no matter what compression rate you used to “Save As” the image. This usually raises a quality concern for the user. For the same editing image, the “Save As” dialog just pops up the first time and PSP will use the compression rate that the user selected the 1st time to save the editing image continually as long as the user just clicks “Save” but not “Save As” from the 2nd time onwards.

Frankly speaking, as long as the image has been edited, the “Save As” dialog should pop up for user to decide what format and compression rate will be used. Although it may become a little annoying, we can say the current behaviour is just correct. Hopefully my explanation is clear for you.

[mallen1330]

Wow! So, all these past years of using PSP since the JASC days, I assumed that once I set the jpg compression value using "Save-As", that it became the default value used from there on -- using "Save" or "Save-As". I judged this assumption based on the file size of the saved images. After setting the value to 5, for example, subsequent files saved had similar size to those saved with "Save-as". And, conversely, setting the compression to a higher value, resulted in smaller files - regardless of the "Save" method (And I could see the jpg noise in these smaller images, but not so much in the larger files.) Was this just my imagination?

So, now, the extra steps to "OK" the "Save-as" prompts really makes a difference to my workflow when processing a 100 images at a sitting.

My suggestion is to 1) use the "Save-as" compression value the continued default (or make it a general preferences setting). And, 2) make the "Save-As" popup for "Save" a general preferences or warnings setting so I can turn it off.

[hartpaul]

Totally agree.
For people using PSP to process many images this will really slow the process down.
What should be done is that if you want a particular compression for Save, then you use Save as for the first image and then Save uses that compression for all future saves. This would mean that you only have to go through the Save as Dialog once when separately processing lots of images in a session.
OR allow this diversion to the Save As dialog to be turned off for the Save operation.
I guess the team at Corel, does not process lots of images which require separate changes.

So I guess I have to continue to use X2 for my power processing.

To give an example. I take 200 images at a fashion parade. The lighting colors are all over the place. Models walk in and out of concentrations of spotlights so there is also some variation there. I process the raw images to get my optimum jpgs with regard to exposure and color balance.
Then I process a selected and copied group of 50 - 100 jpgs to bump up the contrast using levels , perhaps a Red/Green/Blue adjustmement, a crop, resize followed by hitting the X to close and then the Enter key to accept that I want to overwrite (this does both a save and closes the image so I can work on the next image) , but in X8 I now get it going back to the Save As dialog box and if I try to overwrite, the default is No so I have to switch that to Yes and then I finally get it to save over the copy.
For me this is a killer to bulk processing and for further upgrading unless this is changed or modified.
I see Save As for use when you are not sure and may need to change the compression Or you want to change the name. But when you are sure and want to overwrite then Save should be short and sweet.

BTW I just did a test on PSP X2 and when I change the Save As compression to say 75 that value is used for the Save command until I change the Save As compression again. This is how it should be and should remain.
Bring back the one click Save!!!!!

[LindaSue]

Does this only happen with JPG images or also with PSP and other lossless image file formats? It would be very irritating to have to make extra clicks just to save a PSP image every few minutes. I would never click "Save" with a JPG image except for the very first time but I constantly click Ctrl+S when working with a PSP image.

[JoeB]

Does this only happen with JPG images or also with PSP and other lossless image file formats? It would be very irritating to have to make extra clicks just to save a PSP image every few minutes. I would never click "Save" with a JPG image except for the very first time but I constantly click Ctrl+S when working with a PSP image.

First, no. You can use Save with pspimage files without getting any prompts.

However, and perhaps I'm over cautious or am missing something, but I don't use Save even with PSP images. Doesn't that overwrite your existing image of the same name? That's fine if all you're doing with the opened pspimage file is adding more layers and working on those extra layers without deleting other stuff. But what if, for example, you decide to crop the pspimage in your workspace and then just Save it? It will overwrite the larger, uncropped file you first opened. And then if you close PSP, then re-open PSP and the image for later work and decide you're not happy with the crop, you don't have the original to go back to. Or you might have the extremely first original (assuming that you've been working on a copy since you save the true original) but you don't have the original with all your subsequent layer editing that you opened at the time you decided to crop it. And you definitely don't want to go back to that first original from way back when and start all of your editing, layers, etc., all over again!

Some people remove the simple Save option from both their toolbars and menu items simply to prevent this from happening. Just a thought.

[MarkZ]

Does this only happen with JPG images or also with PSP and other lossless image file formats? It would be very irritating to have to make extra clicks just to save a PSP image every few minutes. I would never click "Save" with a JPG image except for the very first time but I constantly click Ctrl+S when working with a PSP image.

The first time you use Save the Save As menu pops up allowing you to set parameters. As long as the image is open, the next time you select Save (by whatever method) the save is silent. If you close the image and start over you are back to the Save As prompt.

As Hartpaul said, in the past if you set a parameter in Save As it would be used in Save until you changed it again. In recent versions that feature disappeared and the Save parameters were fixed and not apparent. Many people were surprised and upset by the compression of their images when they used Save and complained that there was no way to set this. I hope that this method is an intermediate step and that Corel will provide a more elegant fix very soon.

[LindaSue]

Does this only happen with JPG images or also with PSP and other lossless image file formats? It would be very irritating to have to make extra clicks just to save a PSP image every few minutes. I would never click "Save" with a JPG image except for the very first time but I constantly click Ctrl+S when working with a PSP image.

First, no. You can use Save with pspimage files without getting any prompts.

However, and perhaps I'm over cautious or am missing something, but I don't use Save even with PSP images. Doesn't that overwrite your existing image of the same name? That's fine if all you're doing with the opened pspimage file is adding more layers and working on those extra layers without deleting other stuff. But what if, for example, you decide to crop the pspimage in your workspace and then just Save it? It will overwrite the larger, uncropped file you first opened. And then if you close PSP, then re-open PSP and the image for later work and decide you're not happy with the crop, you don't have the original to go back to. Or you might have the extremely first original (assuming that you've been working on a copy since you save the true original) but you don't have the original with all your subsequent layer editing that you opened at the time you decided to crop it. And you definitely don't want to go back to that first original from way back when and start all of your editing, layers, etc., all over again!

Some people remove the simple Save option from both their toolbars and menu items simply to prevent this from happening. Just a thought.

That wasn't my point. It kind of goes without saying that I don't work on the original copy of an image. But, once I start editing a copy of the original, I do save my changes frequently in case PSP or my computer crashes or whatever. If at some point during the editing I decide that I've done something worth saving for future reference, then I do a Save As and give that file a different name before going back to work on the other image. I certainly don't save a new copy of the image EVERY time I make a change to it.

[mallen1330]

My Opinion (as a long time user interface programmer myself), removing a major program function (simple File Save), "for your own good", is a major change. It is an unnecessary change since there are several other less disruptive ways to solve the "problem" of setting the default JPG compression value.

The statement from the developers: ".. PSP always uses a 20% compression rate to save the JPEG file directly", is, in my experience, not correct. Using X7 after a File Save setting compression to 5% to a given JPG file, then doing a straight Save with the same image, then doing a binary file compare, the two resulting files are identical. My conclusion: the Save function used 5% compression, not 20%.

[MarkZ]

Mallen:

- Using X7, I start with an jpg of 12.7 MB.
- Using a compression of 5% I produce image X which is 3.3 MB
- I use Save on Image X and the result is 3.3 MB
This portion is the same as what you found.

- I close Image X and reopen it. I Save Image X. The size is now 1.48 MB.

- I reopen the original, 12.7 MB and use Save on it. The original is now 1.7 MB
- I do a Save As for the resaved original (1.7 MB) with a compression of 5%. The result is 2.8 MB.

It appears that within a session, Save uses the same compression as was first used on the file. Once the file is closed it is treated as a new file the next time it is opened and a standard compression is used for Save. The other results indicate that Save uses a higher compression than the 5% used in the Save As operation. It is more complex than it first appears.

[[Mike]]

Although it may become a little annoying, we can say the current behaviour is just correct.

Um, yeah, no on the correctness, yes on the annoying factor.

I also thought Save inherited file settings from Save As. Apprently this is not the case, but then that should be fixed or user controllable. This new forced behavior is not the answer.

I just opened about a 100 images, was planning on doings some tweaks here and there and then hitting the x on the tab bar and going for yes to save changes. Now for each image I have to go through lots more steps and it is enough for me to just stop already.

This needs to be adressed asap! As suggested before, make this behavior an option for me to decide whether to use it or not.

Time to look into making use of the money back guarantee.