Flicker on AVCHD disc

[Capricorn12]

Hi all due to all the help I have received on here my standard definition DVDs now look great. Using similar methods I saved my finished film to AVCHD using share/avc/h.264 that is then used to burn a AVCHD disc. The AVC/H.264 file will play on my PC and looks brilliant but when burnt to a disc seems to have a lot of flicker with high detail shots and movement. The picture quality is amazingly clear and sharp. I previously had a problem with athe AVCHD disc vibrating but using this method seems to have improved this quite a lot. The footage used for the films is taken from a Panasonic HC V550 with it set to 1080/50p. Would taking the film at 1080/50i improve this due to interlacing problems or is there anything post production that will help. Many thanks.

[BrianCee]

You have told us about the video you started with - but what did you actually burn to the disc ?

After you have clicked on 'Share' then chose the disc symbol and the 'AVCHD' and the burn module opens - please click on the little gear wheel down in the bottom left corner and let us know what the properties in there are set to - are they identical in all respects to the video you are viewing on your computer

please confirm the properties of the video you are viewing by putting it in the timeline of Videostudio and right clicking on it and choosing properties from the pop up.

can we see both sets of properties please.

[Capricorn12]

Thanks Brian for the reply. The actual properties of the video in the timeline are 24 bit 1920 x 1080 50fps, 16:9 Pal H.264, video data rate variable (max 24999kbps), audio data rate 256kbps, dolby digital audio 48khz (2/0 LR). This is used to create a high definition video file using SHARE and AVC/H.264. The profile for this is AVC (1920x1080) 25fps, upper field first, (HDMV PAL) 16:9, H.264 video, video data rate variable (max 18000kbps), audio data rate 384kbps, dolby digital audio 48khz (2/0 LR). This is then used to burn a disc by opening SHARE, DVD, AVCHD, and inserting the file (video/ISO ?) by clicking the first INSERT MEDIA icon and inserting the saved file and adding a menu etc. The properties of this using the cogwheel are 24bit 1920x1080 25fps, (HDMV PAL) 16:9, H.264 video, Video data rate variable (max 24999kbps), audio data rate 256kbps, dolby digital audio 48khz (2/0 LR). The reason I was asking about the setting for the camcorder is that you cant use 50fps to burn an AVCHD disc so was wondering if it was wise to use 50i to record the footage. The flicker on the TV is quite severe whereas there is not a trace of it when viewing the saved video/iso file on the computer prior to burning to disc. Using this same method to burn a standard DVD gives excellent results with only the slightest trace of picture disturbance on moving images.

[Ken Berry]

There are a couple of factors here which are probably contributing to your problem. The first you have correctly identified as the 50P/50i dilemma. You have noted that you can't use 50p video to burn an AVCHD disc. That also applies to 'proper' Blu-Ray discs, and is the result of the international Blu-Ray standard, which says that the only 50p (or 60p for NTSC) video which can be burned to Blu-Ray or AVCHD disc must have a frame size of 1280 x 720. This dates from the period when this format size was the international HDTV broadcast standard for most countries. Things have of course moved on but the international standard has not yet caught up. So to answer your main question, yes, you would probably be much better off recording to 50i from the start.

The next factor is your workflow. Why exactly are first applying a slight down-conversion to your video by sharing to those particular Properties you set out above i.e. with a bitrate of 18 Mbps, as well as the admittedly necessary change to 25 fps (which is in effect the 50i which you need in this case)? I realise that is what VS offers as the maximum bitrate when you choose Share > AVC/h.264. I also realise -- from the days when I too used to make AVCHD discs -- that using 18 mbps will allow you to burn around 20 minutes to a single layer DVD with a menu, whereas the 25 mbps of your original video would probably only allow around 15 minutes or less. But dropping the bitrate from the original also involves a drop in quality, just as lowering bitrates in standard DVDs also lowers final quality.

You can do your editing and produce video with identical Properties to the original in X8 when you start a new project by going to Preferences > General and ticking the box beside "Show message when inserting first video clip". As I say, this can only work when you start a new project, but when you insert the first clip you should get a message asking if you want the Project Properties to be the same as the clip. Say OK and the Project Properties will change, and after you finish editing you can then go to Share and choose "Same as Project Properties" at the very top, instead of "AVC/H.264". But in this particular case, this would only be useful to you if your original video was 50i and not 50p.

Another possible factor is the second potential conversion which might be occurring in the burning module. You say that the burning properties shown in the cogwheel icon are virtually the same as your original footage except for the 25 fps instead of 50 fps. However, on that same cogwheel screen, is the box beside 'Do not convert compliant MPEG files' ticked or not. If it is not ticked, then in other words your new 25 fps/18 mbps video will be converted again, this time using a bitrate of 25 mbps. This would cause further loss in quality since going from a lower to a higher bitrate will not improve the quality already lost in the first down-conversion from 25 mbps to 18 mbps. If that box is ticked, however, then no conversion will occur during the burning process since your 25 fps/18 mbps video is already 'compliant MPEG'.

And finally, the difference between what you are seeing when you play back your AVCHD footage on your computer and what you see when you play the disc on your HDTV is probably due to the difference in the way that computer monitors and HDTVs work.

Which brings me to another point: why exactly are you making AVCHD discs (apart from the probably obvious point that you don't have a Blu-Ray burner or BD discs are too expensive where you live)? You might have noticed I referred above to "the days when I too used to make AVCHD discs". Well I stopped doing that about 3 years ago, and not just because I bought a Blu-Ray burner and got a good supply of BD discs at a reasonable price. It was because I found that I could make AVCHD video from my projects using the full 50p frame rate and a high bitrate (29 mbps or more) and still play it back at top quality on my HDTV by simply transferring it, once the render was completed, to a USB stick drive or USB external hard drive. In my case I then insert the USB drive into my Blu-Ray player where it plays via HDMI cable on my HDTV in full quality. But if your HDTV is more modern than mine, it will probably be able to accept the USB stick with video plugged directly into one of its USB ports and play the video more directly. You don't get a menu, but then again with the small amount of video you can burn to an AVCHD disc, a menu doesn't serve much purpose anyway and is a sacrifice I happily make in order to enjoy the full 50p experience...

[Capricorn12]

Wow thanks for that Ken. A very comprehensive and detailed answer that explains a lot. Being an ex TV engineer you would think that I could sort this out myself but sadly it is all new to me. The 'do not convert compliant mpeg files' is ticked so that can be ruled out. The reason I make AVCHD discs is that firstly I have shot a wedding (as a friend) and wanted to give the bride and groom a copy at the best quality, and second I show a lot of my films at a local church so again was proud of my work and wanted the best quality. This is actually less of a problem now as the copies I make in standard DVD are a lot better than my first attempts after getting workflow advice from this site, and they are almost as good (from a distance) as the AVCHD discs. I will persue the idea of not using a disc at all for showing my films but early trials suggested neither the TV, which is less than 1 year old, or the blue ray player would accept an AVCHD film from the USB ports. Having made videos for over 20 years and lately copied to disc instead of VHS tape I suppose I just got into the habit of copying to disc. If I come up with the answer I will post it on here. Thanks once again.

[Ken Berry]

I have shot a wedding (as a friend) and wanted to give the bride and groom a copy at the best quality, and second I show a lot of my films at a local church so again was proud of my work and wanted the best quality.

When you say this, I take it you realise that an AVCHD disc, although recorded to a standard DVD disc, can only be played on a Blu-Ray player? If so, and if you, your friends and church have Blu-Ray players, then the expense of buying a Blu-Ray burner these days is pretty low and would be an excellent investment. An actual Blu-Ray disc can of course hold much more than an AVCHD disc can and at the highest quality (though bearing in mind the limitation of 25 fps...)

I will persue the idea of not using a disc at all for showing my films but early trials suggested neither the TV, which is less than 1 year old, or the blue ray player would accept an AVCHD film from the USB ports.

It sounds a bit strange that the Blu-Ray player won't accept an AVCHD burnt to a USB stick or external hard drive, though I could believe it about the HDTV if it was not an expensive model. What are the exact brands and models of both the player and the HDTV?

[Capricorn12]

Hi the blueray player is a Samsung BD H 5500 and apparently will only accept video from the usb port with a frame rste of less than 30fps. No mention is made of what formats it wont accept. The TV is a relatively cheap Blaupunkt 32 inc and while it can record off air programs to a usb stick it will only play mpeg 2 video. I am at present experimenting with hd mpeg2 at 25000kbps to see how that goes. I will get there one day I am sure. Thanks for the help to get me this far.

[Ken Berry]

My own information about your Samsung BD player is that it can play video from a USB stick/external drive in MP4, MKV and DivX formats. The only limitations I have identified are the one you mentioned (the framerate limitation of 30 fps max); and that it apparently also won't play video with a bitrate higher than 25 Mbps, which is nevertheless very high quality.

Each of those formats, though, can cover a wide spectrum of video properties, including high def video. Action cams like the GoPro series, and many modern smartphones use mp4 as their preferred format, but in reality you can make .mp4 which in reality is AVCHD using the h.264 codec. Unfortunately, Video Studio won't natively use H.264 for its own .mp4 creation. Instead, it uses the .m2ts extension which is perhaps what your Samsung cannot recognise. You could try making an AVCHD file and then manually changing its extension to .mp4 to see if the Samsung will now play it.

Failing that, if you can obtain a short clip of GoPro footage -- if you have a Hero yourself or a friend who has one -- you can make a template using that clip and then output AVCHD using that template but with the .mp4 extension. The clip would, though, need to be filmed at under 30 fps and with a max bitrate under 25 Mbps. If you want to try that, let me know and I will explain how to do this.

You don't happen to have a PlayStation 3 do you? That is what I use as my Blu-Ray player, and it can certainly play AVCHD video with the .m2ts extension, with 50/60 fps and bitrates well above 25 Mbps. Its only limitation on external devices it can read from is that they have to be formatted in FAT 32 and not NTFS.

You could also experiment with DivX output which is capable of very high quality. In theory VS can output AVI in DivX format, but in reality a lot of people have trouble with DivX and Video Studio. I for instance have the latest version of DivX on my computer, and indeed I bought the Pro version. But Video Studio X8 for some reason cannot see it. However, the free version of DivX comes with a fast converter, and you merely drag and drop your VS AVCHD output into that converter, and an AVI/DivX file is produced which your Samsung should be able to see and play (again within the 30 fps/25 mbps limitations). Anyway, that's something more for you to play around with on a rainy weekend!

[Capricorn12]

Well Ken it seems whatever format I use on a usb stick the Samsung wont see it, be that avchd or mpeg 2 !!!! However my tv can see the mpeg 2 copy of a video done at 25000kbps and the results are near avchd as far as definition is concerned. However I noticed just a touch of the flicker there. It is only slight and is the best results I have had so far so am quite pleased. The next steps maybe a different player and a lot of experimentation but I feel my goal is in sight. Thanks to all on here especially you Ken

[Capricorn12]

Well the samsung player will see mpeg 2 files from the usb stick but only if I put them in a pvr folder for some reason? It will not play avchd files. The TV however will play hi res mpeg 2 files from a usb stick and the pictures are crisp and detailed and dont have flicker, well only the bit of deinterlace shimmer that most TVs show on high detail video. So one happy bunny as I now dont have to take a dvd player to play the videos to the wives group at church. I will invest in a blueray burner for the wedding video and see how that goes. Thanks again.

[Ken Berry]

Well the samsung player will see mpeg 2 files from the usb stick but only if I put them in a pvr folder for some reason?

Don't worry too much about that if it works! My own Blu-Ray player is none other than the venerable Sony PlayStation 3, and that can only see video on a USB stick drive or external HDD if it is in a folder labelled VIDEO (and it has to be in capitals too!!) But it works, so all of my external USB drives now have such folders on them. It becomes second nature to do so...