Paintshop Pro X8

[tomkinsrichard]

Golly, I've been a Corel supporter for so long. Version 4, 5, 6, 7 and I'm gonna switch to Adobe.

I've been asking for and wanting the ability to stitch images together. I've been desiring HDR as well,real bad. I also wanted focus stacking too.

You know what, all these mickey mouse new features in X8 and simply not worth more than $5.00 in an upgrade price.

Adobe has almost everything I want and a lot more, oh wait, they do have all that I want. They've got something else too, they have a modern application with a modern UI.

Sorry Corel, but your tomatoes just wilted on the vine.

[JoeB]

Golly, I've been a Corel supporter for so long. Version 4, 5, 6, 7 and I'm gonna switch to Adobe.

I've been asking for and wanting the ability to stitch images together. I've been desiring HDR as well,real bad. I also wanted focus stacking too.

You know what, all these mickey mouse new features in X8 and simply not worth more than $5.00 in an upgrade price.

Adobe has almost everything I want and a lot more, oh wait, they do have all that I want. They've got something else too, they have a modern application with a modern UI.

Sorry Corel, but your tomatoes just wilted on the vine.

To each his or her own preference as to what works best. However, to say that PS has a modern UI is stretching it a bit IMHO. To me, a modern UI means that it is extremely customizable. Adobe's is still basic Mac, and while there might be some simple customization it is nowhere near as customizable for each person's use as PSP. And despite the actions, etc., available in PS, the Python scripting used in PSP is, again, much more versatile and easily editable. Try writing an action in PS that will do the same type of thing that the script available for PSP will do in opening a standalone program, do editing in that program, and then automatically open that edited image back into PSP losslessly and as a named layer on the original image. And how about the versatility provided by Gary Barton's Pause Script? Just two examples.

And you can find free or low cost plugins or complimentary programs that will do what you want to add to PSP at a fraction of the cost of PS. That includes the cost of PSCC if you intend to use the program for a long time as most PSP users do. Just a thought and my personal opinion.

[tomkinsrichard]

Great, you directly addressed everything but the stuff I was interested in. Do you work for Corel?

If you re-read my post, I didn't mention programming or customizing menus at all.

If we re-read your post, you didn't mention Stitching, HDR nor Focus Stacking.

[JoeB]

Great, you directly addressed everything but the stuff I was interested in. Do you work for Corel?

If you re-read my post, I didn't mention programming or customizing menus at all.

If we re-read your post, you didn't mention Stitching, HDR nor Focus Stacking.

First, you mentioned UI, which includes customization, and scripting (which means you can add scripts to any toolbar or menu) is also UI. UI is improved the more versatility it offers to the user.

As for the rest, I addressed them in editing my post. Patience.

[Radim]

However, to say that PS has a modern UI is stretching it a bit IMHO. To me, a modern UI means that it is extremely customizable. Adobe's is still basic Mac, and while there might be some simple customization it is nowhere near as customizable for each person's use as PSP.

Adobe is working on it...

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/06/ ... pp-design/
Projekt is here: https://github.com/adobe-photoshop/spaces-design

But anyway, I agree with first post!

[tomkinsrichard]

Having made the BOLD statement that there are free or low cost plugins for PaintShop Pro that will do Stitching, Focus Stacking and HDR, would you kindly tell me about them. I have not been able to find them, as Corel do not have a directory of plugins anywhere on their website and given the great and vast quantity of junk on the internet, it is difficult at best to separate the real stuff from the noise. As you have encountered or possibly even purchased and evaluated these plugins, it would be really super for all here in the PaintShop Pro forum if you would pass on the knowledge to us.
Thank you.

[JoeB]

Having made the BOLD statement that there are free or low cost plugins for PaintShop Pro that will do Stitching, Focus Stacking and HDR, would you kindly tell me about them. I have not been able to find them, as Corel do not have a directory of plugins anywhere on their website and given the great and vast quantity of junk on the internet, it is difficult at best to separate the real stuff from the noise. As you have encountered or possibly even purchased and evaluated these plugins, it would be really super for all here in the PaintShop Pro forum if you would pass on the knowledge to us.
Thank you.

Search this forum for Focus Stacking and you'll find some recommendations. You can also do the same with your other concerns.

"Low cost" is relative, and I used that term as a comparison to what I consider the high cost of PS, so your mileage might vary.

You should be able to do this research yourself, but I'll give you a start (you can decide whether standalone or plugin programs -or those that provide both options - work best for your workflow):

This link might give you a start on looking for focus stacking software:

http://forum.nikonrumors.com/discussion ... oftware/p1

This link should start you with ideas for HDR software:

http://captainkimo.com/hdr-software-review-comparison/

And this link should get you started on comparing photo stitching software (you can also google for panorama software, etc):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compariso ... g_software


Now that I've done half the research for you, you're kind of on your own. After all, only you know what software and in what configuration will satisfy you, your workflow and the financial resources that you think are reasonable to achieve your specific goals. Everything I've said - and made clear - is MHO only, and works for me.

The only point I've made which I believe is generally accepted despite general preferences (but also BECAUSE each individual has personal workflow preferences) is that the more customizable a UI so that it can be customized for each users workflow and preferences, then the more "modern" and useful it is. The more limited a UI is (which is usually because the developer thinks it/they know best what works for everybody), then the less "modern" it is and less useful for each individual user. And PSP performs that task with much more versatility than PS. I happen to have both PSP and PS, by the way, with PSP being my "go to" editor for almost everything nowadays, and very customized for my particular workflow.

[tomkinsrichard]

Thank you very much for your response.

I am familiar with all those applications. None of them are PaintShop Pro plugins.

I have used the trial version of many of those applications, some are better than others.

Microsoft has a free research application, Image Composite Editor. It's quite good, a drawback is that it is minimalist in control.

So, my original posting stands, and I thank everyone for strongly reinforcing my points, $79.99 for a mickey mouse upgrade to X8 is a ludicrous proposition.

If Corel had added Better HDR, Focus Stacking and Better Stitching, akin to what can be done with Adobe PhotoShop, then the upgrade price might be perceived to have some real value. As it is, it's a commercial money grab.

By the way has anyone used Serif PhotoPlus, golly, what a steal, $99.00 and if you talk nice to them, they'll usually knock 50% off the price. They are at the Corel gates, and their Windows family of offerings work seamlessly together, at substantially less cost than Corel's. If I were a Corel shareholder, I'd be wondering who was running the show, and why they are sitting on the sidelines, twiddling with their weenies or something.

[tomkinsrichard]

Corel, you cannot stick your hand in my pocket and take the money out of it if you do not have a strong value proposition.

In today's marketplace, almost your entire lineup of products stand on the Minimum Viable Product platform.

Corel, get it in gear and make a plan, if you want to be in business in two years, selling milk in glass bottles is so passe.

[JoeB]

Golly, I've been a Corel supporter for so long. Version 4, 5, 6, 7 and I'm gonna switch to Adobe.

Well, you can only hope Corel addresses thing the way you would like. In the meantime, I guess then that you've changed your mind from a couple of years ago when you said that you "will not pay upwards of $600 for Adobe Photoshop." In that case, if it meets your needs then all I can say is "go for it!"

[tomkinsrichard]

Adobe Compete, all the tools for $49.99/month.

PhotoShop $9.99/month.

I'm shopping around again. There seem to be so many more/new Digital Photography Applications available, and some are free too.

There are numerous people like me, that dearly want Corel to provide more value for the upgrade price they want to charge.

Like I said, Serif is at the Corel gates.

FWIW, I tried PhotoPlus 64 bit, and it typically starts up in a quarter of the time it takes PaintShop Pro to start working. In PaintShop, the first time I click on a menu choice, it takes 3 seconds to appear. Now, in the Computing industry, 3 seconds is known as a century. The industry norm is a latency of 100 msec. So, who in the engineering team at Corel or who in the product management team at Corel, or who in the marketing team at Corel, or who in the senior management team at Corel decided that the industry standard that all others adhere to, does not apply to them and their customers who pay for the product don't deserve the enjoyment of industry standards? Who.

Who ever is running the show at Corel doesn't know what they're doing.

[brucet]

You know I'm not 100% happy with Corel and PSP. But for $80.00 I think it's a great compromise.
You can go to PS and have them suck the money out of you month after month. Corel you only pay once. Skipping every other new version and PSP looks even better financially.

You talk about 3 seconds being a long time in computing. "Relatively" I guess it is. But for 99.99% of users 3 seconds is just fine. So my question becomes should Corel devote their time and money to 'improving' features or speeding up something that the 99.99% of us don't stress over? And then at the end of the day find that its the users computer with the time delay!

You have to realize that this is a highly individualized task. Each of us have work flows and priorities that others may scratch their heads over. Just because something doesn't work exactly the way YOU want it to doesn't define its as 'Mickey Mouse'. But by the sounds of it you wont be happy with anything.

regards

[tomkinsrichard]

Actually, 3 seconds is not for 99.99% of users.
If the cell phones that you, your spouse and your progeny use as well as all the other folks worldwide were to toss up menus after even 500 msec of latency, they'd all be heading off to some other manufacturer.

Apple has such a big profit footprint as they pay strict attention to industry conventions and they strive to be even better than their competitors. Samsung would not even be half as good as they are today were they not going all out to be as good or better than Apple.

I'm happy with a lot of stuff.

I have been taking part in solicited personalized Corel user surveys for many years about PaintShop Pro and CorelDraw, and in all those years I have dutifully identified that the product engineering effort would be best spent in addressing customer desired enhancements. Every new release comes along and I say, whoops, not yet, maybe next time and next time comes and they're not there and then the next time and the next.

So, an upgrade or two ago, Corel sent me Winzip and AfterShot 2. So I installed Winzip, and I gave it a two month trial and then removed it. SLOW. I use 7-zip, which is free and, I've got to say, blindingly fast. Fast to open a ZIP file and fast to extract the content. Winzip, hmmmm, that three second latency again, must be a design element.

AfterShot 2, holy ...., a real after thought there. Hey, if you're gonna copy someones else's product, do it right and do it better, just another crummy mickey mouse money grab. AfterShot takes more than 20 seconds to start and it doesn't even understand Libraries. Sheesh. The world is not MS-DOS any more.

I could go on.

I want Corel to live up to their Value Proposition. "PaintShop Pro x8, Ultimate, Imagine your best photo ever, includes Ultimate Bonus Pack, our greatest value ever"

Sorry, but I'm just not feeling it or seeing it, you know what I mean. I see mediocrity, in the products, and by extension I see mediocrity in the engineering, and by extension I see mediocrity in the management and by extension, I see mediocrity in the senior management.

The reason I put my original post in this forum to complain about X8, is that enough is enough. I want value for my money.

You do not have to convince me of anything, that's cool. As you continue the discussion though, you draw more and more out of me to help explain why I am so disappointed that barely a year has gone by and Corel want more money from me for something that a college student could have cobbled together.

[brucet]

I see someone who has purchased a Ford Fusion and doesn't understand why it hasn't got the same 'features' as a BMW 7 Series. It's nice to dream about 'value for money' but that 'value for money' always comes with compromises. Sometimes you simply have to accepts that 'value for money' means you are going to miss out somewhere.

regards

[tomkinsrichard]

Naw. I buy second hand cars.
My latest is a 2002 Buick Park Avenue Ultra, 3.8L Supercharged. It had 50,000km on it three years ago at a cost of $5000.00. I look after it and it'll be on the road for at least another two years.

I think you missed my point, which is,

Corel wants $79.99 for the upgrade. They are offering, Text Wrapping, Magic Move, More Precise Selections, Lens Correction, 4K monitor Support, Faster Brushes, Layer Enhancements, all as New and the other stuff are enhancements (bug fixes).

What about working natively with 48 bit pixels depths? A lot of the stuff in the application still converts to 8 bit and then back, that is lost dynamic content.

Many of the filters still only work with the 32 bit version.

4K monitor ($$$$$$$) support. Whoah, do they believe that people are doing some serious work with their application and not using PhotoShop. If they do believe that, then maybe they should believe that people want some serious consideration and value for their $79.99.