Incrementing bug when slicing video in VS9

[Jeff7]

This is a simple screwup here. If I've got a clip in the storyline, and I click it, it becomes active in the preview window. Now let's say I navigate to 00:01:00.01 and click the Mark-out button. The Preview window still says 00:01:00.01, but the storyline box says 00:01:00.02. It's skipped a frame ahead.
So now I click End to go to the end of the selection, which now shows as 00:01:00.02. Press Mark-out again, and the storyboard is set to 00:01:00.03. And it continues like this indefinitely.

I'd expect these sorts of errors out of poorly written freeware that someone threw together in a few hours, but come on. Commercial software?

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi

There does appear to be a difference of one frame between the actual clip length and the mark positions, but may be the counter is counting from the beginning of a frame rather than the end.

After you have clicked the Mark-out button, click the Home Button first to move the curser to the start. Now click the End Button to move the curser to the mark-out position. The counters indicate. One frame more.

Instead of using the mark-in / out use the ‘scissors’ to cut the clip. What do the counters indicate.

I see the cuts / clip length SPOT ON.


Trevor

[heinz-oz]

Aren't we splitting hair here? If I have a groop of twenty people and want to split that into two equal sized groups, I count them up to ten and say, ok, you to my left, the first group, go over there. The first person in my second group is invariably person number 11, not ten, ten is the last one in the previous group

[Jeff7]

I think the issue has been missed though. Ok, if the thing marks 1 frame after the spot I choose ONCE, ok, that's a feature, not a bug. But once it does it a few times, then it's an incrementing error.


Click Mark-out, and the end of the video shifts later by one frame. Click the button to go to the new end of the video, and click Mark-out again, and the end of the video shifts later by one frame. You could in theory move to the end of the entire original video file, just by clicking Mark-out! Mark-out isn't supposed to MOVE the end point of the video. It is supposed to obey what you tell it to do - if I select frame 20 as the end frame, I don't want frame 21. If I had wanted frame 21, I'd have selected it.

Reason I want frame-precision is that I'm editing some shows for commercials, and they sometimes have very short transitions from the show to the commercial. Cut too soon, and you lose a bit of the show's sound, which sounds like an ameteur cut job. Cut too late, and you get a little burst of commercial sound, which is generally louder than the show.
If the software's got frame-accuracy capability, it should be usable as such, not frame accuracy +/- a frame.

[GeorgeW]

@Jeff7:

Are you working with PAL or NTSC

If NTSC -- is that Drop-Frame or Non-Drop Frame

Do you actually see 00:01:00.1

[Jeff7]

NTSC


No idea what drop frame or non-drop frame is. The video is progressive, if that's what you mean.

1 frame - sometimes I can see one frame, but it's mainly the little burst of sound that gets in. If you're watching comparatively quiet show, and a loud split second of a commercial blasts in, it's kind of aggravating.


Even so, ok, it may be a comparatively minor issue. But I'm tired of people just saying "aah, close enough" with programs. Computers have the ability to do things with extreme precision, yet we're all so used to sloppy programs. If it doesn't outright crash or screw up a system, we're happy with it. I'm not. I expect a program to execute with the accuracy that a computer is capable of. Anything less is poor programming.

[GeorgeW]

what are the attributes of the source video? How was it recorded, and how did you capture to your computer?

Specifically, what is the framerate of the video you are dealing with

[Jeff7]

I recorded the video to MPEG2 with a Hauppauge WinTV PVR-350, and then converted it to AVI, used Virtualdub to apply some denoising and deinterlacing filters and other visual enhancements.

The file that Videostudio is working on is Huffyuv format, with WAV audio, 720x480, non interlaced, 29.97 frames per second.


However, this bug also manifests itself in MPEG2 video, 29.97 fps, interlaced.

This problem only comes up in VS9. If I make a cut in Videostudio 8, it stays right where I tell it - none of this +1 stuff.

[GeorgeW]

Hi Jeff,

I'm sorry, I misunderstood what the issue was.

I think I get it now -- you are saying there's a difference between the timecode under the VIDEO tab on the TOP-LEFT vs. the timecode under the preview window on the right side -- is that correct

If so, I just noticed that it could be due to the TOP-LEFT timecode starts at 0:00:00.01, while the other timecode lets you start at 0:00:00.00.

It just seems to be off by the 1 frame because the TOP-LEFT doesn't let you put in all zeros. Not sure why it is like that, just happened to notice you cannot set it to all zeros (once you add a video to your project).

[Jeff7]

Here, quick way to clarify all this: A screenshot.

For this demo, I used a blank video file - 20 frames, all black, used as a spacer, and to allow for a smaller saved screenshot file. The short duration also lets me show clearly that the mark-out spot is not where it's supposed to be.

Anyway, look where it is circled in blue. Note the position of the slider. That is at frame 10. The red-circled spot shows this - Frame 10. This is where it was when I clicked Mark Out.
Note where the mark-out point is though, below and to the right of the slider. Frame 11. Note also circled in green - the timestamp says 11 frames.

This should nicely clarify exactly what I mean. I mark it to stop at frame 10, but it stops at frame 11. Videostudio 8 did not do this.

[GeorgeW]

Yes, I see what you mean

Also notice the timecode under the VIDEO tab -- TOP-LEFT -- it also says 00.11 -- because it seems to be relative to frame .01 (and not frame .00).

I would fill out a technical support form with Ulead, and reference this thread. (I'll also forward it along).

Thanks

[Jeff7]

Ah, I see what you mean too now. I almost never see that section of the screen; just never needed to look there yet.

I hope Ulead actually fixes version 9, without just saying "Buy version 10!"

[pkalen]

I noticed this problem too. I frequently make a screen cap while marking out a clip in order to freeze the video for a second. I choose these frames very carefully for content and clarity, but the frame I choose to mark out on and capture is not the same one the clip ends on. Very annoying. Fix this Ulead.

[Jeff7]

Confirmation. Thank you.


See? One frame can make a difference.

[bobcwilson]

You are gaining an extra frame instead of losing a frame. When you go to frame 10 and click mark out, it should mark out frames 11-20. This will leave you a clip of 10 frames (frames 1-10). Instead, it is leaving you a clip length of 11 frames. It is marking out frames 12-20.

There are a couple of work arounds for this. First, you can go to frame 9 instead of 10 and click Mark Out. This will mark out frames 11-20 which is what you want. The number of frames circled in red in your sreenshot will still be off by 1 frame (it will say 11 frames instead of 10), but the length of your clip will be 10 frames.. The length of your clip is the important number, since it is the length of the clip that will be rendered out in the final output.

The second workaround is to use the scissors instead of Mark Out. Go to frame 10, click the scissors and then delete the clip that is on the right side of the 2 clips. This will leave you with a clip of 10 frames and the number that is circled in red from the screen shot will also be 10 frames.