Uploading to YouTube within Studio

[lata]

Hi Mike

I have viewed the video clips properties and there seems to be some discrepancies with the data rates.

The original MVI_0161.mp4 uses 24066Kbps that’s high quality

SR Steam Special 2047Kbps that’s low quality, I downloaded that from YT?

Untitled used 24086kbps, no problems with that other than not same as original?

Test file for http---forum.corel.com that again very low at 1216kbps.

Having different data rates is not doing us any favours when trying to compare quality.

Either you are not using the same settings in your trials, or You Tube are converting the video files, messing up the data rates.
I don’t know if that would affect the video causing those jutters.

Check the files properties before uploading to YT.

I have created a short video from your original which I will upload to YT then I can download again to see if there is any difference.

[MikesMovies]

Hi Mike

I have viewed the video clips properties and there seems to be some discrepancies with the data rates.

The original MVI_0161.mp4 uses 24066Kbps that’s high quality

SR Steam Special 2047Kbps that’s low quality, I downloaded that from YT?

Untitled used 24086kbps, no problems with that other than not same as original?

Test file for http---forum.corel.com that again very low at 1216kbps.

Having different data rates is not doing us any favours when trying to compare quality.

Either you are not using the same settings in your trials, or You Tube are converting the video files, messing up the data rates.
I don’t know if that would affect the video causing those jutters.

Check the files properties before uploading to YT.

I have created a short video from your original which I will upload to YT then I can download again to see if there is any difference.

Thanks Trevor most helpful, I shall be interested to see what you find.
I suspect you will conclude like me that YouTube are mangling our files.
It would seem pointless uploading in 1080p if this is the case?

[lata]

Hi Mike

I created a video file from your original using the same properties, full HD 1920 x 1080
This I uploaded to YT

https://youtu.be/nzu4LVAGItE

Have a look see what you think.

I then downloaded the file using Torch Browser.
Yes the data rate has been drastically reduced as well as the frame size down to 1280 x 720.
Although I don’t see those judders as I did in the first sample, maybe that was just a one off?

[MikesMovies]

Hi Trevor, very interesting! I did note a small bit of lag but much better.

Do you think my error was to encode at 30fps when the camera makes 29.97?
I used 30 as the mobius camera used for the ride on and follow shots uses 30fps.

[canuck]

I just downloaded Trevors file from youTube. Using my IDM download manager I am offered 7 files formats to download including 1920x1090 (video bitrate of 2998 kbps) and 1280x720(video bitrate of 1786 kbps) HD formats.

Does that mean that youTube automatically converts uploaded video files to other formats? I don't think that IDM does any conversion since this multi-format option only occurs with youTube as far as I have noticed.

[asik1]

this is Trevor test I download from you tube

General
Complete name : C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\Desktop\Video Test for Mike ([Full HD]).mp4
Format : dash
Codec ID : dash
File size : 16.8 MiB
Duration : 46s 880ms
Overall bit rate : 3 001 Kbps
Encoded date : UTC 2015-07-06 18:49:04
Tagged date : UTC 2015-07-06 18:49:04

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L4.0
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 2 frames
Codec ID : avc1
Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
Duration : 46s 880ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 2 875 Kbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Variable
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Stream size : 16.1 MiB (96%)
Encoded date : UTC 2015-07-06 18:49:04
Tagged date : UTC 2015-07-06 18:49:04

[canuck]

These are the properties for the downloaded youTube file that I got. Notice that there are slight differences....why?

I don't think that youTube is reliable enough to make properties comparisons or evaluations.

General
Complete name : \\Hp-w7\Partition F\Videos\Video Test for Mike - YouTube.mp4
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : Base Media
Codec ID : isom
File size : 17.5 MiB
Duration : 46s 928ms
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 3 124 Kbps
Encoded date : UTC 2015-07-06 18:49:04
Tagged date : UTC 2015-07-06 18:49:04

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L4.0
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 2 frames
Codec ID : avc1
Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
Duration : 46s 881ms
Bit rate : 2 998 Kbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 29.970 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.048
Stream size : 16.8 MiB (96%)
Encoded date : UTC 2015-07-06 18:49:04
Tagged date : UTC 2015-07-06 18:49:04

[lata]

I just downloaded Trevors file from youTube. Using my IDM download manager I am offered 7 files formats to download including 1920x1090 (video bitrate of 2998 kbps) and 1280x720(video bitrate of 1786 kbps) HD formats.

Does that mean that youTube automatically converts uploaded video files to other formats? I don't think that IDM does any conversion since this multi-format option only occurs with youTube as far as I have noticed.

canuck
I think your download manager is converting the videos and not downloading the originals.
I used Torch Browser, as far as I know downloads without converting, but could be wrong
This makes it difficult to say what YT had done to the files, especially if we all download a different file?

Guys

These are the properties of the files I uploaded to YT

Video Test for Mike
MPEG-4 Files
24 bits, 1920 x 1080, 29.97 fps
Frame-based
H.264 High Profile Video: 24065 Kbps, 16:9
48000 Hz, 16 Bit, Stereo
MPEG AAC Audio: 128 Kbps

And my download of above file
MPEG-4 Files
24 bits, 1280 x 720, 29.97 fps
Frame-based
H.264 High Profile Video: 1786 Kbps, 16:9
44100 Hz, 16 Bit, Stereo
MPEG AAC Audio: 192 Kbps


Second video called My Video
https://youtu.be/nzu4LVAGItE

Original file
MPEG-4 Files
24 bits, 1280 x 720, 30 fps
Frame-based
H.264 Main Profile Video: 10000 Kbps, 16:9
48000 Hz, 16 Bit, Stereo
MPEG AAC Audio: 192 Kbps

Both uploads have been converted by YT

This second one, this is what I got when downloading the file from YT
MPEG-4 Files
24 bits, 1280 x 720, 30 fps
Frame-based
H.264 High Profile Video: 1804 Kbps, 16:9
44100 Hz, 16 Bit, Stereo
MPEG AAC Audio: 192 Kbps

Mike I don’t know what difference 30 to 29,97 fps makes, but if you feel one is better then obviously use that?
Going back a few days, this is your original, first video made with X8, and foe me shows the stuttering video.
All others since then are acceptable and don’t look as bad

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHg8VsUvTig

[MikesMovies]

Hi all

Well this has turned out to be a most interesting topic!

Just looked at my original video again, I note that in the follow and ride on sequences, filmed with the Mobius camera that shoots at 30fps there seems to be no stutter at all.
Yet with the main film made by the Canon G7x there is a slight stutter, this shoots at 29.97 despite saying it does it at 30, not something I realised at the time.
Before with Pinnacle studio I was always told I could add what I liked to the timeline and it would all be sorted out during encoding later.
Is this not the case with Corel X8?

Should I render at the lowest overall frame rate or the best?

Say I had some clips made at 60fps and 30 mixed on the time line, what should I make the output settings?

[lata]

Hi Mike

The timeline can only be set to one frame rate at a time, for Pal that’s 25fps or 50P

Your video uses 30 fps so you manually control the frame rate, project properties to use 30.
If you add a 60p video to a 30fps timeline every alternate frame will be dropped as the timeline can only play at 30fps.

If you add a 30fps video to a 60P timeline, every frame will be duplicated, each frame being played twice, doing the above retains the original duration of the video.

Output settings

You should decide what you are intending to create, if 60p then set the timeline to that, where possible set the project properties to your main video.
30 video will have extra frames converting it to 60P

You Tube seems to re-code the video that we are sure of, what I don’t know is what they actually use, there is some confusion in my mind as to what we are actually downloading from YT.

Its getting complicated

Your 30fps were good but 29.97 bad, was the project properties set to 30 or 29?
There should be no difference in quality, but I don’t think anyone has actually compared the quality of 30 to 29.97
You would have to run several tests using 30 and 29.97 as the project properties.
The general guide would be to use the video with the longest footage, although I guess that may vary depending on which camera you pick up?


Video Studio

If all your cameras use this higher frame rate and not 25, then maybe consider installing the program to use NTSC standards, at least all default templates will use 29.97 rather than 25fps

Again its that original first X8 video that has the problems, I just wondered if the project properties were set to 25, then rendered to 30, may just cause that blip?

Try making that first video again to see if you can improve quality.
Once you have the project complete you can render to different settings to find the optimum.

And yes quite an interesting and revealing topic

[Ken Berry]

I often wonder if the reference to 30 fps is just a quick way of covering the more difficult to type 29.97....? We are talking about one thirtieth of a second, after all though if there is a real difference we are talking a frame's difference. But I remain doubtful that this is what is causing this problem...

[MikesMovies]

Thanks guys

I have a number of appointments the rest of the day so won't be able to respond much.
I already re made the movie at 29.97 but don't have time to upload just now.

However can I just make a point that may have been overlooked.

When I view back on the computer the original output from X8 that I uploaded.
It plays back without issue or stutter of any kind.
I feel we are seeing a YouTube issue rather than a studio issue?

Also, when I made the original, the project was set to 30fps.

Cheers guys, fascinating stuff

[MikesMovies]

Hi chaps

Sorry, hospital trips have stopped the fun, I expect to upload a new file in the next few days.
One odd thing I note, when I output a mp4 using the same settings at 1080p or 720p the file size is the same? would expect the 1080 to be bigger.

Cheers

[Ken Berry]

It's not so much the frame size but bitrate which governs the size...

[MikesMovies]

Hello everyone

OK I have finally made a new video, used Studio 18 to make it and uploaded.
I can't see any of the flicker that was noticed this time?

I set the project to use the same settings as the video clipsI was adding (great tip that) still combined the two camera outputs.
When it came to sharing the output I initially chose 'same as input' however that offered a huge bit rate that would be lost on YouTube and would have made the upload well over 2GB which would have taken many hours to go up.
So I edited it to have a bit rate of 15mbps which is more than YouTube ask for and made the output file 1.4GB.

Here is the video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqmFtOnvarw

I really got into the program this time, using lots of its features and a very much larger complex time line than I have been used to.
Very addictive!

I'd be most interested in your views?