Ways out of the ASp 2.2 plugin-disaster ?

AfterShot Pro Plugins
andreas
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Re: Ways out of the ASp 2.2 plugin-disaster ?

Post by andreas »

today I received an answer to one of my questions on asGPS from Corel....

we'll see how this will continue.

Andreas
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hannes_hab
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Re: Ways out of the ASp 2.2 plugin-disaster ?

Post by hannes_hab »

when was the question?
hope you continue your work!
regards Hannes
austria

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bibble 4, bibble 5, ASP mostly on Ubuntu 14.04 ( sometimes Suse Linux 11.4 or WIN10)
andreas
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Re: Ways out of the ASp 2.2 plugin-disaster ?

Post by andreas »

hannes_hab wrote:when was the question?
4th of May (this year) as PM.

Current state for asGPS: It is not clear if the missing QT-Dlls will be included by Corel in next ASP.
The dev team succeded to install asGPS by inserting all the QT dlls manually. I tried that beforde and it did not work for me. I will have to try it again.

Current state for asPluginMager: No answer at all regarding plugin download page, plugin archive structure, missing 32/64 bit marking etc. Question date for this was 6th of April 2015.

Andreas
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pixel719
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Re: Ways out of the ASp 2.2 plugin-disaster ?

Post by pixel719 »

In the world of quality management, there is the term "cost of failure". For Corel, I see this cost as a significant loss of existing users, the use of the new upgrades is stalemated and no future sales as the product is not supported (in terms of plugins). If this issue is part of a strategy to sunset ASP, its working and will likely impact sales of other Corel products as users lose confidence in Corel's ability to support their products. As a user, I cannot move forward with ASP versions since I too have a lot invested in my current images with ASP.

Here are 2 possible solutions:
1. For Corel to take responsibility to upgrade existing plugins to the new format as well as update the rest of the suite to 64 bit. They could do this by securing ownership of the plugins offered on their website or simply offering to assist the current owners as a service the ASP user base.
2. For Corel to initiate an ASP Plugin project on SourceForge and request the current owners to submit their plugins to the project for the benefit of the ASP community. Here, those users with development experience can offer their time and talent to the benefit of the ASP community.
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Re: Ways out of the ASp 2.2 plugin-disaster ?

Post by afx »

pixel719 wrote:1. For Corel to take responsibility to upgrade existing plugins to the new format as well as update the rest of the suite to 64 bit. They could do this by securing ownership of the plugins offered on their website or simply offering to assist the current owners as a service the ASP user base.
They've already started something, but it is not very effective so far...
2. For Corel to initiate an ASP Plugin project on SourceForge and request the current owners to submit their plugins to the project for the benefit of the ASP community. Here, those users with development experience can offer their time and talent to the benefit of the ASP community.
While I do agree an appropriate repo is needed, I strongly suggest to stay away from SourceForge. People who put their adware into downloads are definitely not acceptable.

cheers
afx
Send bugs to the Monkey // AfterShot Kickstart Guide // sRGB clipping sucks and Adobe RGB is just as bad
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Re: Ways out of the ASp 2.2 plugin-disaster ?

Post by Kneops »

lundbech wrote:
LViatour wrote:Darktable solution is here!

I went there a week darktable after many years with Bibble / ASP. Well in darktable everything is better, stable, fast and no need for any plugins is included. And it's free !!!!
Here's what I wrote about Darktable elsewhere a year and a half ago:
"Anything but Darktable.
Darktable is a powerfull tool, but the UI is an unholy mess. Really! ;)
If you at new to RAW converters/editors you should stay far far away from Darktable. The tools (called modules) are placed according to some programinternal logic, not in any useful order. The UI as a whole suffers from some very bad design decisions.
I've used RawTherapee, AfterShot, Lightzone, Photivo, Darktable and a few others. All of those (except Darktable) I was able to get comfortable with within very short time, even though they are very different, but never with Darktable.
AfterShot I highly recommend. LightZone also. Photivo is very powerfull for converting af single picture, but has a fairly odd UI. RawTherapee og Darktable fall somewhat behind, and with AfterShot and LightZone available why would you want them? :)"
I have recently had a new look at it, and I haven't changed my opinion.
I have to agree on every point. The UI of Darktable is terrible, I just can't work with it. I also played with the others, and Lightzone is the best of the rest. But none are as fast as ASP and none have an image assessment system like ASP. So I will stick with ASP, although there are ofcourse things that could be better, like the raw conversion of Fuji raf files and some essential plugins, like a perspective tool. I really think APS is great, I just hope they will keep on improving it.
rainer042
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Re: Ways out of the ASp 2.2 plugin-disaster ?

Post by rainer042 »

I think you have to make a difference between features and UI

Dartable has compared to Aftershot more filters or modules it also has such simple things like automatic correction of CA ASP does still not have. And darktable also has a layer concept similar like the one in Aftershot. I just played around half an hour with darktable up to now but my impression was I can do all the things I did with ASP and more.

Looking at the user interface ASP is certainly much better. ASP has a simple and clean interface. Darktables interface looks very complexand and you do not find anything at first. Also I found as an example that there is eg no way to zoom into or out of a photo using the mouse when the left sidebar is minimized because then the button for this purpose is hidden. So darktables interface is really not polished compared to ASP.

On the other hand if you start working with darktable, I guess after some hours of learning you would feel already much better, when you have become used to the way things work in darktable.

One thing I found however kept me from trying more with darktable for the moment: There is no real undo functionality. There is only a stack of filters you applied on the photo but this is no aquivalent to a real undo/redo. As I read later this year a new major version is planned and I hope this version will improve the interface and also introduce a undo function. This would probably make darktable much more attractive to me. Perhaps I would switch over to darktable then, because I still cannot use the latest ASP version because of missing plugins.

By the way I asked corel for their plugin SDK in order to compile some open available missing plugins I need on my own however I did not even receive a reply. I really do not understand corel. There is no official communication what users should do and what corel does to solve this plugin problem. It seems to me corel wants to get rid of plugins and integrate some of the functionality on their own in a later version because they were asking what users would like to see in a future version. However there is no information about this. The user has to sit and wait and pray. I really like ASP but I really hate to be left out in the rain without any information that and when the sun will come out again....

Rainer
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Re: Ways out of the ASp 2.2 plugin-disaster ?

Post by Kneops »

Yes, I can understand the things you're saying. Especially about the communication and plans for the future. Incorporating some plugin functionality on their own is perfect, but indeed when and how... About Darktable... I played with it many times, for hours and hours. And each time when I read someone saying it is so good, I would give it another try. But each time I get so confused and utterly annoyed by the clumsy UI, I virtually whipe it off my desk. I just don't understand who is responsable for that UI. I've never seen anything like it ;).

Being a professional photographer (and webdesigner) and working on Linux, ASP is the only option for me. When I have to deliver some images fast, I have to do this with ASP. With Darktable I would not know when the images would be ready to send :).
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Re: Ways out of the ASp 2.2 plugin-disaster ?

Post by baldrick777 »

So, a couple of weeks back I took up the challenge to try Darktable (v1.6.6 via ppa), and I also found it's UI a bit ugly, but no uglier than ASP2. Darktable's layout is very different to ASP2, and navigation is more difficult. But as I have got used to it, I find it far more workable than ASP. The modules are generally easy to use and are fairly comprehensive. Many modules stand as drop in replacements to ASP's plugins.

With regard to an undo feature in Darktable? I agree, it would be very helpful, though they could argue you can toggle that particular module on or off (effectively undo/redo) as required.

It's fair to say that usability wins over UI design for me.

I really see no point in persevering with a product which releases a (stable?) update knowing much of it's usability isn't ready. As others have pointed out, without the current set of plugins ASP is pretty much useless. It's been over 3 months now since Corel released it's ill-fated update, and as yet there is no formal response or update as to what they are doing to remedy the issue.

If I was dealing with free (open source) software, I would accept that it may take a while to remedy any issues, but this isn't free software, we paid for it, so expect a better level of service from Corel, especially considering how big it is.

So, for the interim (and possibly much longer), I will be sharpening my skills with Darktable, because at least it has full functionality.

Cheers.
Using Linux Mint 17.1 > gThumb Viewer > ASP2 (ProPhoto RGB) > Gimp 2.9 (dev). Specialising in landscapes, concerts and portraiture.
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Re: Ways out of the ASp 2.2 plugin-disaster ?

Post by LViatour »

Kneops wrote:Yes, I can understand the things you're saying. Especially about the communication and plans for the future. Incorporating some plugin functionality on their own is perfect, but indeed when and how... About Darktable... I played with it many times, for hours and hours. And each time when I read someone saying it is so good, I would give it another try. But each time I get so confused and utterly annoyed by the clumsy UI, I virtually whipe it off my desk. I just don't understand who is responsable for that UI. I've never seen anything like it ;).

Being a professional photographer (and webdesigner) and working on Linux, ASP is the only option for me. When I have to deliver some images fast, I have to do this with ASP. With Darktable I would not know when the images would be ready to send :).
I'm faster with darktable with ASP. The DT interface is confusing but customizable, remove what is not used then it is much clearer. Conditional settings help save time.
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mikkokan
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Re: Ways out of the ASp 2.2 plugin-disaster ?

Post by mikkokan »

Professional and Linux, Darktable is now the only option at least for me.

Once you create your own style, Darktable is fast and quick to use.
Example styles:
1. Studio neutral kids
2. Kids portrait outside
3. Wedding portrait outside
4. Wedding ceremony inside
And so on..

IQ is better in Darktable, Noise remover is better, Camera+lens support is better, Highlight+shadow recovery is better etc. UI is a bit mess but after few hours you hardly even notice it.
LViatour
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Re: Ways out of the ASp 2.2 plugin-disaster ?

Post by LViatour »

mikkokan wrote:Professional and Linux, Darktable is now the only option at least for me.

Once you create your own style, Darktable is fast and quick to use.
Example styles:
1. Studio neutral kids
2. Kids portrait outside
3. Wedding portrait outside
4. Wedding ceremony inside
And so on..

IQ is better in Darktable, Noise remover is better, Camera+lens support is better, Highlight+shadow recovery is better etc. UI is a bit mess but after few hours you hardly even notice it.
+1 really better!!!
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- My material

Luc Viatour - Photographe
LViatour
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Re: Ways out of the ASp 2.2 plugin-disaster ?

Post by LViatour »

mikkokan wrote:Professional and Linux, Darktable is now the only option at least for me.

Once you create your own style, Darktable is fast and quick to use.
Example styles:
1. Studio neutral kids
2. Kids portrait outside
3. Wedding portrait outside
4. Wedding ceremony inside
And so on..

IQ is better in Darktable, Noise remover is better, Camera+lens support is better, Highlight+shadow recovery is better etc. UI is a bit mess but after few hours you hardly even notice it.
+1 really better!!!
My Website - Corporate - Wedding
- My material

Luc Viatour - Photographe
Hobgoblin
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Re: Ways out of the ASp 2.2 plugin-disaster ?

Post by Hobgoblin »

mikkokan wrote:Professional and Linux, Darktable is now the only option at least for me.

Once you create your own style, Darktable is fast and quick to use.
Example styles:
1. Studio neutral kids
2. Kids portrait outside
3. Wedding portrait outside
4. Wedding ceremony inside
And so on..

IQ is better in Darktable, Noise remover is better, Camera+lens support is better, Highlight+shadow recovery is better etc. UI is a bit mess but after few hours you hardly even notice it.
+1
Using dt more and more, and ASP less and less every week. ASP would stil win for relative simplicity, but without the vital plugins - Gradfilter and AsGPS - in particular it has simply become a dinosaur.