Newbie needs help, Why are rendered MPEG-4 files so large?

[KenVid]

I am new to video editing software. I am using VideoStudio X7 to create software tutorials using the screen recorder, which I want to post on the web for students. After editing the captured file, I use the "Share" panel to create the video file. There may be a better file format to use, but I select the MPEG-4 format. I would like the videos to be 1920 x 1080. I have experimented with different parameters, but the smallest MPEG-4 file I can create is around 42 MB for a 1:22 min long video. A WMV 1920 x 1080 file, created from the same original is about 12 MB. If I use VLC Media player to create the 1920 x 1080 MPEG-4 file from the WMV file, the MPEG-4 file is only about 4 MB, or about 1/10 the size of the MPEG-4 file created by VideoStudio X7. Quality wise, video and audio, they appear to be identical. Is there any way to get VideoStudio X7 to create compact MPEG-4 files, like VLC Media player is capable of, or must I always use VLC to create the MPEG-4 file?

I have tried setting the minimum video compression, while still retaining the 1920 x 1080 size, and still get the very large MPEG-4 file (compared to the VLC file). I have a lot to learn about video. I am wondering why VideoStudio X7 is only capable of making very large MPEG-4 files compard to VLC. What am I missing?

[trailryder42]

What FPS option are you rendering the mpeg4 at in VS?

Can you look at the VLCs version of the files properties to see what they are and then in VS choose the Custom option and try setting the parameters to match as closely to the VLC file as possible?

It seems to me that every time you render and convert a video, it would get more and more compressed, resulting in smaller file sizes.

[aljimenez]

It seems to me that every time you render and convert a video, it would get more and more compressed, resulting in smaller file sizes.

Not true most of the time. It depends on what encoder is being used, amount of editing, resolution changes, etc... Al

[KenVid]

From the properties of the two files: VLC rendered – VS (VideoStudio) rendered
Length: VLC 00:01:22 – VS 00:01:22
Frame Width x Height: VLC 1920 x1040 – VS 1920 x 1040
Data Rate: VLC 308 kbps – VS 4155 kbps
Total bitrate: VLC 434 kbps – VS 4251 kbps
Frame rate: VLC 29 frames/second – VS 30 frames/second
Audio bit rate: VLC 125 kbps – VS 95 kbps
Size: VLC 4.32 MB – VS 42.1 MB

I have tried to lower the video data rate in VideoStudio, but it insists on a minimum rate of 5000 kbps as long as I keep the Frame width height at 1920x1040. I can use a lower data rate if I reduce the Frame width height, which I do not want to do.

As you can see VLC renders an MPEG4 file that is approximately 1/10 the size of the VideoStudio MPEG4 file. The reason appears to be that VideoStudio insists on keeping the video data rate at a very high level, while VLC is happy to use as a default a much lower data rate resulting in a much smaller file. Why doesn't Video studio let you use a significantly smaller data rate? When I play the file full screen, I see no difference in video or audio quality.

[trailryder42]

I have tried to lower the video data rate in VideoStudio, but it insists on a minimum rate of 5000 kbps as long as I keep the Frame width height at 1920x1040. I can use a lower data rate if I reduce the Frame width height, which I do not want to do.
.

Sure enough. I see that now.

I don't imagine there is any way to edit the code of a VS parameters file to allow a lower minimum.

Looks like if you want to do the render once in VS and be done, WMV may be the way to go. If you are going to upload to Youtube, I think it is accepting wmv files.

[lata]

Hi Guys

From Share – Create a video file that you can play on a computer is an option to “Same as First Video Clip”

Place a tick in the box top left

Depending on your video file type, if the option is available may use the lower data rate.
This option does not work for all types, but worth having a go?
Make sure your video file is indeed the first in the top timeline

[Ken Berry]

trailryder42 -- I know you say you are a newbie, but there is one slightly more advanced way of getting what you are after, or at least one which is worth trying. And it's easy enough. First, go to this thread from a few days ago: http://forum.corel.com/EN/viewtopic.php ... 18#p305518

If you download the clips from the links provided there by both asik1 and erdna, you can then use them to make new templates which produce high quality output but with very low bitrates, and thus much smaller files. When you go into Movie Template Manager, the usual way to make a template is to do so from scratch. But you will also see an Add button which provides a second way. If you click on that button, a slightly mysterious box appears with two boxes in it. The top one says Path and to its right there is an even less helpful button labelled "...". In fact, it is used to browse to where you have stored those clips you just downloaded from asik and erdna. You select one of them and its full path will appear in the top box. Give it a name in the bottom box and OK out of it. Next time you want to make a video with exactly those Properties, you will see, down at the bottom of your Custom templates that new template. The only caveat is that you must never try to change the properties of that template. If you do, the template will revert to a standard def DVD template and you would have to create a new template again from the asik or erdna clips.

Have fun!

[KenVid]

Thanks for the suggestion. I tried this, but my first clip is the WMV screen recording file created by VS, so I got the same file size as using the regular WMV output options.

Hi Guys

From Share – Create a video file that you can play on a computer is an option to “Same as First Video Clip”

Place a tick in the box top left

Depending on your video file type, if the option is available may use the lower data rate.
This option does not work for all types, but worth having a go?
Make sure your video file is indeed the first in the top timeline

[KenVid]

Thanks Ken for the suggestion. The procedure, which you outlined very clearly, was easy to follow. The asik1 settings created a template that I used to render a 18 MB 1280x720 file that had good quality video and sound. This new template may be useful in the future. The erdna file template produced a low quality image, so not very useful for my purposes. Your procedure did give me an idea, why not follow the same procedure and try and create a template based upon the VLC created MPEG-4 file, since it is high quality and very small. Up to the point where I add the new profile and it appears in the list, I thought that this is going to work. However, when I close the Profile Manager, the new profile disappears. I am not sure why this is, since the asik1 and erdna based profiles were retained. Any thoughts on why this might be?

trailryder42 -- I know you say you are a newbie, but there is one slightly more advanced way of getting what you are after, or at least one which is worth trying. And it's easy enough. First, go to this thread from a few days ago: http://forum.corel.com/EN/viewtopic.php ... 18#p305518

If you download the clips from the links provided there by both asik1 and erdna, you can then use them to make new templates which produce high quality output but with very low bitrates, and thus much smaller files. When you go into Movie Template Manager, the usual way to make a template is to do so from scratch. But you will also see an Add button which provides a second way. If you click on that button, a slightly mysterious box appears with two boxes in it. The top one says Path and to its right there is an even less helpful button labelled "...". In fact, it is used to browse to where you have stored those clips you just downloaded from asik and erdna. You select one of them and its full path will appear in the top box. Give it a name in the bottom box and OK out of it. Next time you want to make a video with exactly those Properties, you will see, down at the bottom of your Custom templates that new template. The only caveat is that you must never try to change the properties of that template. If you do, the template will revert to a standard def DVD template and you would have to create a new template again from the asik or erdna clips.

Have fun!

[lata]

Hi

If you were to add your video file as the first on the timeline does Share – Create a video file that you can play on a computer “Same as First Video Clip” work for you?
Using your original video files properties?

Profiler Manager

If you use the add option, you browse to find your video file, Give the template a name.
Important as mentioned by Ken, do not edit this template, simply close the manager. Editing the template will lose the settings.

[zaphodikus]

I just tried some hints from the linked post http://forum.corel.com/EN/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=56396 and created a custom profile
MPEG-4 Files
24 bits, 1920 x 1080, 25 fps
Upper Field First
H.264 High Profile Video: 16800 Kbps, 16:9
48000 Hz, 16 Bit, Stereo
MPEG AAC Audio: 256 Kbps

I used these settings and it did not play, so...
A screencast which looks pretty usable in my opinion, the source was encoded at 1920x1080
(source clip = 80Mb)
(encoded using the default profile 1280x786 = 1400Mb) woah!

Is there any other guidance or is it just a lot of experimenting until you get joy normally?

[lata]

Hi

Not so much trial and error, some formats are unsuitable to convert so some experiments may be needed but ….
You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear

You should try to use the same or similar settings as the original video file.
This of course is not always possible depending on what you wish to create.
Video for the internet can have many formats, for DVD Disc has to be Mpeg2.

1 / What are you intending to make? burn a disc, upload to YouTube, save for PC playback?

2 / What are the properties of your original video files.?
Right click a clip in the timeline and choose properties, what are they?

3 / Set your project properties to match your video files properties.
Go to Preferences (F6) tick show messages, start a new project and add one of your files, hopefully you should get a message to match the properties.

4 / What version of Video Studio are you using?

[zaphodikus]

1/ I intend for playback (storing them as training clips on a fileshare, hence wanting small files)
2/ Origional file is an MP4, mono audio, and at 5fps 1920x1080p (I have uploaded 2 samples here, no login required: https://citrix.sharefile.com/d-sfef72ff8a3f46f9b .)
1.66mb (55 seconds)
H264 Baseline profile video
24bit 1920x1080
5.018 frames/sec
187K bps
AAC audio, 16bit mono
64K bps
There are 2 files in the download total about 5Mb) , the other file is using VideoStudio recorder and is larger, and at 30FPS and stereo.

3/ I tried using the "same as first vldeo clip" tickbox in the sharing screen as well, but it refuses to render!
4/ VideoStudio 7

The real issue seems to be that I am unable to compress to 5 FPS that the smaller file was originally recorded at. The Ulead codec setups screen only goes down to 25FPS, Camtasia apparently supports 5fps and even 1 fps. I think they are using a specific codec that goes down that low. The ULead wrapper does not let me set anything below 23fps Is there a way to get/add a other option?

[asik1]

Zapho, I was able to create a 5fps mp4 profile via Settings>Movie profile manager.
Select MP4, > ADD > browse to your 5fps clip and select.
Name it as 5PfS.

When you ready to render, select that profile.

(VS can do any odd res/fps but it involves "under the hood" tweaks, not recommended for average Joe)

[zaphodikus]

I have tried that a few times. It won't render a file for me.
When I do that, and nothing else. It refuses to render because it says the frame size has changed. (screenshot)
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/521/1852 ... a_b_d.jpg

I am also curiously only left with much lower screen resolutions available if I "edit" the profile to set a frame size. all I get allowed are
176x144 up to 640x480
and then also only lets me select 25fps.