Will VS ever give this quality?

[asik1]

Download this link
http://brightcove.vo.llnwd.net/pd15/med ... r-v1-1.mp4

here is it's info
General
Complete name : 1191289016001_3597372252001_mountMaker-v1-1.mp4
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : Base Media
Codec ID : isom
File size : 35.0 MiB
Duration : 2mn 50s
Overall bit rate : 1 723 Kbps
Encoded date : UTC 2014-05-30 18:02:08
Tagged date : UTC 2014-05-30 18:02:08
Writing application : Lavf53.24.2

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L3.1
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 4 frames
Format settings, GOP : M=1, N=48
Codec ID : avc1
Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
Duration : 2mn 50s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 1 592 Kbps
Nominal bit rate : 1 672 Kbps
Width : 1 280 pixels
Height : 720 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 23.976 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.072
Stream size : 32.3 MiB (92%)
Writing library : x264 core 118 r2085 8a62835
Encoding settings : cabac=1 / ref=4 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x3:0x113 / me=umh / subme=6 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.00 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=1 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=24 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=4 / b_pyramid=2 / b_adapt=1 / b_bias=0 / direct=3 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=2 / keyint=48 / keyint_min=25 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=40 / rc=abr / mbtree=1 / bitrate=1672 / ratetol=1.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=10 / qpmax=51 / qpstep=4 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2014-05-30 18:02:08
Tagged date : UTC 2014-05-30 18:02:08

Just see how advanced the encoding settings are,
VS even at 10X that bit rate MP4 is crapish.

[Ken Berry]

Hmmm... yes. I wonder what NLE was used to make it? No credits at the end.... Loved the music!!!

I've made a custom profile of it using the Add function, and will play around with it with some of my own video to see how it comes out in X8...

[asik1]

I just tried the profile X8 took from that file... crap,
here the info

General
Complete name TEST.mp4
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : Base Media
Codec ID : isom
File size : 21.9 MiB
Duration : 1mn 46s
Overall bit rate : 1 726 Kbps
Encoded date : UTC 2015-04-15 14:03:37
Tagged date : UTC 2015-04-15 14:03:37

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L3.1
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 2 frames
Format settings, GOP : M=3, N=12
Codec ID : avc1
Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
Duration : 1mn 46s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 1 595 Kbps
Maximum bit rate : 1 592 Kbps
Width : 1 280 pixels
Height : 720 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 23.976 fps
Standard : NTSC
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.072
Stream size : 20.2 MiB (92%)
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2015-04-15 14:03:37
Tagged date : UTC 2015-04-15 14:03:37
Color primaries : BT.709-5, BT.1361, IEC 61966-2-4, SMPTE RP177
Transfer characteristics : BT.709-5, BT.1361
Matrix coefficients : BT.709-5, BT.1361, IEC 61966-2-4 709, SMPTE RP177

Audio
ID : 2
Format : AAC
Format/Info : Advanced Audio Codec
Format profile : LC
Codec ID : 40
Duration : 1mn 46s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 127 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R
Sampling rate : 44.1 KHz
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 1.61 MiB (7%)
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2015-04-15 14:03:37
Tagged date : UTC 2015-04-15 14:03:37

VS do not implement all the encoding profile from the source, just the simple ones.
My originals are 1920X1080 50i MTS's

[lata]

Hi

I don’t seem to have a problem with the video file.
I was able to add to timeline, match project properties
Then Share same as project properties created a new video file, quality as far as I can tell is the same as original.
At least nothing bad jumps out at me.

I then converted to MTS 1280 x 720, again the quality looks as good as original.

[asik1]

Trevor, you missed the point.
The point was, can VS produce such quality in a ~1600K mp4?
Take one of your antarctic expedition file and let it have these settings , well? is it still as "cold" as the original

[lata]

Hi
yes converting my MTS to MP4 look the same as originals, I don't see any noticeable difference at least on the few playbacks I have done, even playing at full screen via Video Studio.
As you know VS does not always play as good as other Media Players, but then its an editor not a media player.

I did set my render properties to be the same as the originals, where I could that is.

MPEG-4 Files
24 bits, 1920 x 1080, 25 fps
Upper Field First
H.264 High Profile Video: 16800 Kbps, 16:9
48000 Hz, 16 Bit, Stereo
MPEG AAC Audio: 256 Kbps

[Ken Berry]

But Trevor, that is not asik's point. If you look closely at all that mountain of stats he provided, the bitrate in both cases was no more than 1.6 Mbps, yet yours was ten times that. That is why I added his video using the Add function to get the exact same properties. I have tested this, and have to say that with my nearly 30 Mbps mp4 from my Hero 3, when I rendered using the Add template, I got video which I could not distinguish from the quality of the original. i.e. with a bitrate of only 1.6 Mbps and framerate of just on 24 fps. I was surprised, but it played at top quality in both X8 and also VLC. And the latter showed its properties to be the same as the original Art Gallery video. That is on a 24 inch full HD resolution monitor...

[lata]

Hi Ken

My first render was to convert the original MP4 sample using similar / same settings.
I allowed Show Messages to do its thing, then rendered to MP4.
The quality was as far as I could see the same.

Then Asik me to convert my MTS from my Panasonic 900.

Now I am gonna use the same or similar properties as the original, where I can.
As you know the data rate controls not only the files size but quality.

Video Studio X8 did a good job, certainly not a crappy video.

I will however run another render using a lower data rate, do I also need to change the frame size to 1280 x 720?

[erdna]

The good thing with VSX is that it has the Profile manager. Although it is a bit tricky to compaire quality and bitrates without appropriate test movies, the "Asik encoder" is impressive but not the most recent (favf53) when it concerns low bitrate video. VSX users who want the more recent and mor powerfull (still lower bitrates) can use my video in the link below for the Profile manager and get the favf55 in VSX. It encodes 1280x720/23.97 at < 700Kbps in a High@L4 format profile with decent PQ.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1xi25a54c0rvk ... 5.mp4?dl=0

[Ken Berry]

Hmmm... When I use the Add function in Movie Profile Manager it gives me a "file format mismatch" error when I point it at this clip. So I cannot build a permanent profile from it. However, I can insert it in the VS timeline and get a message so that the Project Properties match it. I can then add the video I want in the project, and remove your clip, and then use Same As Project Properties to output a new clip with those properties.

[asik1]

I don't get it erdna,
I loaded your clip to the profile manager > saved the profile
placed a good HD clip on the time line
Share to mp4 using your profile ... and got crapy video
You didn't use VS to produce that demo, you used WinX HD Video Converter Deluxe
VS product show this:

General
Complete name : Testfav.mp4
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : Base Media
Codec ID : isom
File size : 3.72 MiB
Duration : 49s 967ms
Overall bit rate : 624 Kbps
Encoded date : UTC 2015-04-17 05:32:46
Tagged date : UTC 2015-04-17 05:32:46

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L3.1
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 2 frames
Format settings, GOP : M=3, N=12
Codec ID : avc1
Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
Duration : 49s 967ms
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 427 Kbps
Maximum bit rate : 413 Kbps
Width : 1 280 pixels
Height : 720 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 23.976 fps
Standard : NTSC
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.019
Stream size : 2.54 MiB (68%)
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2015-04-17 05:32:46
Tagged date : UTC 2015-04-17 05:32:46
Color primaries : BT.709-5, BT.1361, IEC 61966-2-4, SMPTE RP177
Transfer characteristics : BT.709-5, BT.1361
Matrix coefficients : BT.709-5, BT.1361, IEC 61966-2-4 709, SMPTE RP177

[lata]

Hmmm... When I use the Add function in Movie Profile Manager it gives me a "file format mismatch" error when I point it at this clip. So I cannot build a permanent profile from it. However, I can insert it in the VS timeline and get a message so that the Project Properties match it. I can then add the video I want in the project, and remove your clip, and then use Same As Project Properties to output a new clip with those properties.

Ken -- I was able to use Add from Profile manager ok, did you first select Mpeg4, having other formats selected will give that error?

[Ken Berry]

Thanks Trevor. I'm sure I never had to select mpeg-4 as the controlling format before for other Custom templates. But it certainly worked this time.

[erdna]

Indeed Asik I used another converter to get te profile into Corel.
Corel has a least the elegant possibillity to implement modern codecs. No NLE has it all...if this is yr problem with Corel.
Can you define what you define as "crap video". Is this by showing/analysing the restricted MediaInfo list? When I was in the video business and we wanted to evaluate video processing results, we used specific (electronic) test sequence, or we subtracted both real live images to determine differences. Do you see that right away on your sample video?

[asik1]

Indeed Asik I used another converter to get te profile into Corel.
Corel has a least the elegant possibillity to implement modern codecs. No NLE has it all...if this is yr problem with Corel.
Can you define what you define as "crap video". Is this by showing/analysing the restricted MediaInfo list? When I was in the video business and we wanted to evaluate video processing results, we used specific (electronic) test sequence, or we subtracted both real live images to determine differences. Do you see that right away on your sample video?

erdna, more than 25 years in the video business gave me some idea what a proper video should look like.
So if I render a MP4 video in VS at ~8Mb H264 and I see "noise" and artifacts on the image, I call it crap.
Certainly if I came across a sample that is stunning at just 1.8Mb, but can't get it's settings in VS.
Looks as VS is not implementing the encoding properly as you think or as it should and mediaInfo show this ever so clear.
I looked under the hood of VS for tweaks but I have limited tools here for that so I stick to WMV which is the best bang for the byte for me and my clientele needs.

**side note: VS still has in many of it's Dll's traces of the old Ulead stuff, there I find very delicate encoding setting but Corel blocked the user from them. I guess part of this is because they are manly SD but the other part of it is the philosophy of corel (and other companies) to strive for "User friendliness"...