Purchased but undelivered X8 product - help

[lata]

Hi Guys

Apologies, I seem to have missed the important point from the first post, I thought the download speeds were the main problem? For me that discussion has clouded the issue?

I assume the student has looked at her Corel account and purchase history to see if there are any details.

If yes then the purchase has been completed and the download links should be available. The order details should also show the Backup DVD.

If no……..
I also assume you have either contacted Corel or requested a refund from Cleverbridge.
They will probably contact Corel anyway.

[Davidk]

Trevor,

The point of the thread was to get a corel contact (see the statements I made in the 1st post for the administrators) to progress the issue. I've suggested that she can work thru the bank to refuse/revert the transaction by Cleverbridge/Corel on the basis of non-delivery, but that can be unpleasant and so far at least I think she just wants to get what she's paid for.

The discussion on download speed was occasioned by the lack of an apparent backup CD option for X8 on the Corel website, and why users of VS (I had thought just in Australia, but there have been affirmations from several other users/countries as well, including wales which is probably next door far as I count distance from you) prefer the CD to downloading over abysmally slow (for the sort of large files the VS represents) internet connections, and an expectation that at some point Corel would see this thread and possibly change their ways(??).

Davidk

[lata]

Hi David

You don’t say if she has managed to contact Corel, nor whether her Corel account has details of the transaction. I don’t know how far you have got in perusing the order.?

At the bottom of “Your Account” page is Your Order Status & History
Here you should be able to access recent transactions by clicking the See All Orders.

There was also a note “Please note we are currently migrating our systems to a new platform. If you are unable to find your order below, please click here.” That did indeed produce more details.

I found this help page
http://www.corel.com/gb/customer-service/

Corel Customer Service
Orders
To place an order or find out more about a Corel product, call 08000 488984.
To inquire about your Corel product order status, call 0800 8620377.

Unfortunately I think the above details may only apply to the UK / GB

I did find a link when logged into the AU site
http://www.cleverbridge.com/?scope=cuse ... fg=default

To look up your license key, activation code, software key

http://www.cleverbridge.com/?scope=cuse ... oyZhsYEr2C

As I say I don't know how many buttons you have pushed?

[Davidk]

Hi Trevor,

I've heard back from her, as follows:
"I paid $107.64. I thought I ordered the full version and not the upgrade in Aus dollars. Looked in trash spam etc and did a search but could not find any paper work."


As to how many buttons she has pushed - began with me. Contacting the oz Corel sales office is a long distance charged call and they haven't been that helpful in the past with others. This forum looked like a more effective and quicker approach, given the time lag, and I was of the opinion that you mentors had Corel contacts (Yvonne or similar) who could speedily resolve this. The contact details - weblinks etc - in your last post look like a good start, however given the total lack of any product or reference info thus far I am not optimistic.

As to her "my account" - not sure if she has one, or how relevant that actually is in this case. I will ask. When I last visited and observed mine, there were notable omissions and I had to manually register them, including the license keys. If you don't have a license key, that's a problem when searching for information relevant to non-delivery of a product, as in this case. Thus, unable to register it.

More later.

Davidk

[lata]

Hi David

I assume she registered X6 so should have a Corel account.
When we try to access the Corel Guide (X6) we are asked to provide our account e-mail address, if we do not have one a new account is created.

The details of our products are available from our account including the serial number required for installation.

If the purchase has gone through yet not received notifications then the details will be on the account purchase history, including serial number.

If there are no details on the account purchase history then she has not bought X8, yet has paid money.

[Davidk]

Hi Trevor,

I've passed the lady the link to this thread, and specifically pointed out to her the details in your last (but one) post. She hasn't said if she has a Corel account. In particular, she has sold her home in the last few weeks and is clearly feeling stressed about this whole process - the only internet she has available right now (time code of this post) is via her mobile phone, altho she is responding to same email address I've been using to contact her for years.

I'll make some suggestions about alternative access and see what she says.

Davidk

[lata]

Hi David

Things don’t get any easier.

I assume she did purchase from the Corel web site and not via Amazon.

Hopefully she has an account, if you ask her for the log-in details maybe you/us can access that for her, till she gets back on line via PC.
I would assume she used the same e-mail address that you use to contact her.

If you do have her personal details use Private Messaging or e-mail, but not the open forum

[Davidk]

Hi Trevor,

Yep, not easier but maybe also bordering on giving up in frustration. In between homes, internet access via fast broadband (or what passes for it here, certainly not via the mobile phone networks) in this situation is clearly an issue. See next para.

She will be at class tomorrow (1.30pm wednesday afternoon AEST), and I've asked her to bring both her laptop (X6 is installed on it) and the UID/PWD data for her X6 and X8 purchases. We will use the class WiFi access point to check her account details on the Corel site (using either her laptop or mine) and see if the X8 key is there.

I think she probably used the main Corel site, since that's the one I/the class use. And the pricing data she gave in $A suggests that altho she thought she bought a CD maybe what she did buy was download insurance, since $99+8.50 is within 14 cents of what she said she paid for a full version. The insurance item is in the same place on the purchase page that the backup CD used to occupy.

As background to that planned access/discussion, could you clarify for me the following:
1. what does Corel mean by "download Insurance"? and how might it apply to this situation if my thesis in the para above is actually what happened?
2. If she has not previously created an account, would creating one now using the same email address as the X8 purchase be automatically adjusted by the Corel site to include the X8 purchase details, including the license key? Or must that account exist at the point of purchase for the association to be made?

Davidk

[lata]

Hi David

Download Insurance

1 / When you purchase you have approx. 30 days maybe a little longer to download your files, then the link is disabled, this is usually long enough for most people.
I then save the downloads to disc and other pc locations as archive.

2 / The Download insurance extends the download period to say 2 years, could be 3 years, I have never needed to use that option.

3 / Disc Backup, they provide the files on disc.

You don’t need to use both options one or the other, or non, I use option 1

Corel account

Once you have registered a program with Corel they have your e-mail details.
If you try to sign-in to Corel you probably will have forgotten the password.
Choose the Forgot Password option and if they recognise the address will e-mail a new password.
If the address has not been used then they will say address not used or not recognised, create an account, or something like that.

I thought when you purchase from Corel either the existing account is used or a new account is created, either way the purchaser should have an account.
Once accessed will have details of current purchases with download links.

Running X6, access the Corel Guide will prompt the user to register, again use the registered address, if not a new account will be created.

At least that’s how I see it working

Has she received any notifications from anybody Corel or Cleverbridge since purchase?

[Davidk]

Trevor,

The only message she has mentioned to me is the one in the thread - warranty expiring in 5 days etc. So its pretty clear that Corel recognise the purchase, its just that she hasn't received any of the usual items that go with that: receipts, keys or the product. And any communications professional will tell you that relying on email is foolhardy - delivery most definitely is not guaranteed. Altho snail mail has gotten to that point too lately.

As for the download delivery method - my experience is that browsers are NOT designed for that, even tho vendors do use it that way. Browsers have an annoying habit of timing out and stopping during a transmission once it gets to about 2 hours or a bit more. Meaning you have to restart and try again from the beginning - a frustrating experience. A bit of personal experience there. And that characteristic is what led me to the discussion of download speeds versus using the CD backup disk early in this thread. Using ADSL 2+ (nominally 24Mbps but usually half that in practice) to connect, the 2 files comprising X8 pro will take a total of about 5 hours to download, even with an FTP management program like filezilla, which a browser most definitely is not. But filezilla is a program usable only with the related access credentials, which the web browser link doesn't have or give. More to the point, for senior non-IT people who use the program to generate results without understanding how it performs the various functions, even a browser linked download can be a difficult proposition (my observation based on class questions on this subject over several years). I was quite surprised to see other users from around the world chiming in to support the CD option, for exactly the same reasons.

I will continue to push to resolve this particular problem, but in these circumstances, probably compounded by the Corel server upgrade issues (which professionally speaking should not have happened) that have been referred to, it seems highly likely that this person will write off the the whole episode, and NOT upgrade. May not even buy another Corel product: seniors oldies and even younger others get pissed off like that when a vendor doesn't operate in a responsible manner, and this will be the 2nd issue with a Corel VS product this person has had.

So, I think Corel has made a serious, brand damaging mistake in not providing the backup CD option for X8 on the website, or as a policy for any future releases. Unless Corel intends to abandon the software store delivery chain, they must be planning to release a packaged CD version, so that non-availability of the CD on the website is baffling. I ask you to pass that on to the Corel VS product executive and I would be quite happy to argue that position directly if you can supply an email contact.

I will update after class today.

Davidk

[Ken Berry]

David -- I've sent an email to Yvonne who as you know is the Corel exec in charge of VS development. I don't know, though, how far she has any connection with Corel sales, but hopefully she will point us in the right direction.

[Davidk]

Hi Ken,

Thanks for that response. I noted the email and then the tones for a forum update. pretty quick!!.

This is all concerning. I thought about Yvonne initially but it seemed more appropriate to put it on the forum as a first case. There may have been other information - I recall reading a similar thread some time ago which was resolved by a moderator, or an alternative person you moderators interacted with on sales matters. The number of views of the thread is interesting: more than a few quiet watchers of this to see how it pans out.

Davidk

[Davidk]

Everyone,

Yvonne promptly replied to Ken's email, which I opened after class today. I've responded to her in detail and the text of both communications are posted below. I have blanked out Inga's email address in this post for privacy reasons.

First, Yvonne's response:
On 1/04/2015 2:57 PM,
> Hi David,
>
> From the post, the client is your student, right?
> Do you mind to give me his/her contact information so that I can have our CSS people to help directly?
>
> Thanks,
> Yvonne

And now my reply:
Hi Yvonne, everyone,

Firstly, thanks to Yvonne for the speedy reply to Ken's email.

I am assuming that any direct or 'forwarded to' readers of this email have also read the forum thread so I don't need to recap what has happened. The class wherein we discussed and addressed this problem today had some mixed results, which I outline below. I'll post these in the forum also. Broadly: good, poor and just more questions.

First, the poor result. Relevant to the main action item, second (below)
One of the class members - been with us 6 months and very enthusiastic - had bought X7 pro last November via the CD option (see forum documented outline of download times resulting from actual download speeds as the reason), and looking to upgrade to the ultimate package. Forum advice requested and that was to the effect that it not apparently feasible within the available offerings for any particular VS version, so he opted to wait until X8 was released and then buy the ultimate package. Now that X8 is released however, he has trapped the various pages of the purchase website and clearly read the items on offer, which did NOT include a CD, but did include download insurance at the same position on the page where the CD was for the previous version (X7). He showed those images to us in class. He has aborted the X8 purchase at this point because the CD is not available.

Second, the main item re a purchased product not delivered - no receipts, key or product, but a warranty expiry warning email received on 26 March.

The student's name is Inga Smith, email <<supplied direct to Yvonne>> and the transaction took place on 3 March. The credit card transaction from Cleverbridge for the purchase has passed thru her bank account. Currently, between homes as a result of moving, and whilst her email account works, it's currently via a mobile telephony connection which has both speed and download data size limits.

I asked Inga to bring her laptop to class ((ordinarily, not needed as we use the smart package function extensively, and a usb stick containing smart packaged vsp and files plugged into my machine, displaying on a large HD wall screen via HDMI for everyone in the room to see, and with VS installed on it (3 versions) is quite good enough)). She did (bring it to class). Since she could not recall ever creating a Corel account, my intent was to:
a. extract the license key from the installed X6 software on her laptop
b. create a new account for her, and
c. use the X6 key to register the X6 software in that new account and then establish whether that was sufficient for the Corel server to associate her recent X8 purchase with that account. If it did, then the product registration details would verify just what Corel understood her purchase action was. If not, then your response to Ken's email would get a workout.

1st problem.
The installed software does NOT display the license key correctly. I know of no other major software package that does not do that. For example, I use the Acronis backup suite and the AVG internet security suite on all my computers, and I can establish the whole key for each package by using the standard 'about' function. And when getting help, supplying the full key has usually been required, whether the help is by phone, chat or email. In this case, the last 6-digit group of the installed Corel X6 license key is shown as X's. And that is common with every other VS installation I have checked on 3 machines.

Which meant that my intent to register her X6 software in a new account just went out the window - as the first thing a new product registration asks for is the product (license) key.

At this point it did not look real good at all. However, I then tried to create her new account using the email address (above) which she has used for years.

Third, account creation.
When I tried to create her new account, using the email address, the response was - unexpected - that that email address was already in use. Then she tried logging in using the password she would normally use for this activity, and that failed. Using the forgotten password link, and the subsequent change password page (link supplied by email), she established a new password and then attempted to login to the account. And that worked. And clicking on the product registration details link in her account page confirmed that she had purchased X8, supplied the license key number and identified that download insurance was purchased - not a CD which was her expectation. A certain amount of relief at this point. But now that she knows her key she still cannot get the program, and her warranty on product not delivered has expired.

2nd problem
Since Inga did not receive any confirmation emails, purchase receipts etc, the download link for it is not available. The Corel website pages don't seem to have it either. The nominal 30 day period in which to do that download has passed, as has her warranty even tho she's not had the opportunity to install and use X8.

3rd problem
The availability of backup CD's. Corel may have intended it to be just a "backup", but in the many circumstances of slow broadband speeds - I outlined conditions in the forum post in which my download of X8 files took over 5 hours to download over a standard ADSL2+ link, and this was 1Km from a major telephone exchange and only 16Km radial distance from the Brisbane central business district. - around the world many users have used this CD feature as a primary method of getting the software. I know that Brian C mentioned in other forum posts that his X8 download took just 10 minutes. Would that we all could have it that way. Removing the backup CD option regardless of it's allegedly green credentials is reflecting very poorly on Corel in places where the internet transmission links are barely adequate for normal use, not the download of very large files.

Given the absence of a CD option, and the frequent breakage of browsers when downloading large files ie taking literally several hours to do so, I have concerns that this will actually work for the X8 extractables. Combine that with the mobile connectivity Inga has for the next few weeks and I think the probability of a followup email on this topic seems to approach certainty. However, that's all that seems to be available so she will have to find a suitable broadband internet link and try it.

And now, the Questions
1. Why does Video Studio not display the full license key in an installed program using the about function?
2. What is the weblink in which Inga can exercise the insurance protection of downloading the program files she's paid for.
3. in the circumstances which apply to Inga, will Corel extend the warranty for her software purchase until 3 May (30 days from the date in which she can download it, assuming the download link becomes available to her sometime over the next day?)
4. What is Corel's policy on backup CD's? If you intend to supply them for online purchase, when will that option be available? If Corel intends to abandon all forms of hard distribution (packaged CD's even over the counter of software stores), knowing that would at least clarify an extremely confusing situation right now.

I welcome your assistance offer and will advise Inga to expect contact.

Cheers,

David

[lata]

Hi David

That’s good news, so simply signing to her Corel account was all thats needed.

Having those download links, she will be able to try, see how long it takes, hopefully the internet has improved over the years?

It may be its not practical to download so a disc may be more appropriate.
But downloading is the next step to try.

First make a copy of the X8 serial numbers and keep them in a safe place.
Also X6 details just in case she wishes to install that program again?

[Davidk]

Hi Trevor,

Certainly - in respect of the account - an unexpected result. And financially pleasing to Inga as well. But we are not out of the woods yet.

Given that Corel supplies a download link, there's still the method. Basically, because Inga is between homes (staying with family/friends for several weeks and living out of a suitcase - her words - while the removal thing sorts out), her internet connectivity is either her smartphone or a small transition or data relay device that is battery powered, sits right alongside her computer and 1) connects to the laptop by WiFi, and 2) has a phone number and acts like mobile phone to use the mobile telephony networks to reach her ISP. So the path is computer -->wifi to device -->> device to mobile phone network -->> phone call to ISP internet gateway. And vice versa on the return link. Setting it up can be fiddly but once done they work quite well.

Most mobile companies have these things (about the same size as a normal mouse) and they are handy little devices to use for internet access when there isn't anything but a mobile phone available, or desirable eg in hotels to avoid exhorbitant usage charges. BUT because they are "a phone" (no keypad, display or the normal accessory phone functions, and a pre-defined phone number), this mobile connection has a speed limit and a data size limit that's not known right now but if its anything like other phones, is probably quite slow for the download intended. The WiFi link at 802.11b or g quite possibly is constrained to 11 mbps, and even if its 802.11a, it would only be 54mbps. Bits, not bytes. And a slice of that is lost to overheads like security. And then there is the battery life - only works while the battery is charged and for this purpose it would have to be used with the charger connected and operating. So you can see that this connection is not really suited for large file downloads.

A CD would avoid all this. I really can't understand the mentality that removed it, but I suppose that's obvious.

Davidk