X8 and why I didn't upgrade

[TonyP]

This is a little venting on my part with Corel as a parent company.
First off, I own PSP X6U and VSP X6U. I've updated both those products from earlier versions. I have had a few versions before settling on what I have. X7 versions did not have enough new things to make me upgrade. So, I do have a financial invested interest in these products and wanting to see them improve. I also have Corel's PDF Fusion software.
I too, have Pinnacle editing products. I have been a long time Pinnacle user going back to 2001. I was interested in Ulead (owned their Cool 3D and Cool 3D Studio) and looked at there editor, which I liked but did not purchase.
I stayed with Pinnacle and every version that I owned (including DV500 with Premiere) had Smartsound. I bought music when on sale so have a nice collection. Then in 2008 (Studio12), Pinnacle dropped SS support and gave us Scorefitter. It was "nice", but not SS. There was a huge revolt in the Pinnacle forums. Everyone changed their avatar to SS, and of course the posts flooded in. Then Pinnacle was taken to court by SS. With this, Pinnacle has only released 3 albums. This was in 2008-9. Three albums. The same three that are available for X8, with no promise of creating more.
I can understand for a financial reason that Pinnacle/Corel would go with what they already own. That's business. But to remove a feature that has been present for so long, and where a user might have a financial investment in that feature is, to me not right. With Pinnacle, we soon got the chance to buy the plugin for Smartsound. That same plugin has worked from S12-PS18. And that plugin gave us a much easier to use ExpressTracks instead of Quicktracks. So from S12-S16, you paid for the plugin (and got 10 more songs, initially is cost $20, now $30). Then with PS17.5 update, Pinnacle GAVE the plugin for FREE to anyone who had PS17 and updated (for free) to .5. They gave it away! A good thing. So when you bought the latest version (PS18), you get SS too. Nice.
So, while they are giving away the plugin in Pinnacle, they are taking it away (at least for the moment) with VS. Not, in my opinion, a good thing. A very very bad thing with no consideration for users who have a SS collection (like me). It now makes that collection basically worthless in VS. Can you operate Quicktracks outside of VS? Not to my knowledge. If you have SFP, yeah, you can still work with what you have, but it's much more time consuming, and you have to buy SFP if you don't already have it. So the financial investment in Smartsound music, IF you update to X8 is "gone".
I wonder who's brilliant idea this was. IF they made it a plugin you have to buy, yeah, I would buy it, update to X8 and continue on editing. But since I use SS in just about every video I do, I did not upgrade to X8.
If SS was still in X8U, I would have it now. As for bluray support being a "plugin" now (Corel has to pay royalties for each version VS shipped with BR enabled, whether they sell it or not), why they would not include Smartsound as a purchasable plugin too?
To borrow a quote from a famous admin here... "time will tell"... but right now, I ain't too happy with this.

[asik1]

I totally agree with you, there should be SmartSound plugin if it's that important.

[Ken Berry]

I'm one of the lucky ones who already have SonicFire Pro, which I will continue to use with my extensive SmartSound disc collection in X8. Like Tony, I use SS music in just about all of my projects. I too do not understand Corel dropping SS like that, especially when I now learn that the ScoreFitter library is so small and unlikely ever to grow bigger. SonicFire Pro currently costs $100 so is not cheap.

As a matter of interest, SmartSound are currently offering a stand-alone version of QuickTracks as a web/cloud based system. From a quick read of http://www.smartsound.com/sonicfire/quicktracks it seems subscribers will be able to access the entire SS collection. But the catch is that the *annual* subscription is $1995!!!

Anyway, with the dropping of SS and charging separately for Blu-Ray authoring, Corel have made some bad public relations decisions which will hurt sales of X8 rather than gain them more...

[TonyP]

ouch!!! But then, they work with huge corporations and companies. So, to 'them', it's a business deduction. Someone would be better off with buying SFP (and get an album with it), and pick and choose what you want.
I'll listen to their new stuff and write down what interests me. Then, when they have a sale, get what I was looking for. I only buy albums, not individual songs. Gee... way back when, it was like $29 per album before a sale.....

[asik1]

I see on the SS site that they sell plugins for 30-50$, so maybe the problem is not corel but SS ?
What if SS raised their license fee to corel?

[Ken Berry]

Well that might of course have happened, though it would have been nice if either (a) they told us that had happened; and/or (b) they still offered an SS plug-in for those who wanted it.

[TonyP]

Corel produces 2 levels of VS (Pinnacle, 3). I don't know the sales point they are trying to make where they can achieve the highest profits or sales, but the price for the Smartsound plugin has been like that for ages. The one for Pinnacle is $30 and you get the album Core Foundations. Not a bad price. Pinnacle sells it at the same price as Smartsound, but again, they gave it away with PS17.5. Upgrading to PS18, Smartsound ExpressTracks is automatically seen in the program.
I think Corel meeting that selling price point for X8 Ultimate ($100 retail, PS18U is $130 retail), they had to "trim" something. Unfortunately, bluray burning is an option (at least you can get it with either version of VS, in Pinnacle, only the Ultimate version has it), and paying royalty for Smartsound is out. I guess they figure having a new effect is what most people want. They offer Triple Scoop, but has anyone looked at their price list? Scorefitter, they've had for ages and it's already paid for. IF they say they are coming out with new albums, that would help. But the 3 they have now have been around for years.
Talk about trimming resources, I am a part of Corel Your Way, a small community that had direct input with Corel through the Sr. Marketing Manager. The one that was in charge of this forum was always available. Always listening and answering. It did not matter what the issues were with whatever product, a solution came. The community is very small, but covers the Corel products. This wonderful person (if you can ask anyone in that forum about this person, nothing but glowing reviews and tears over them leaving) left Corel late last year. No one has shown up since then. This person was in contact with the developers, sales, just about every aspect of Corel. We asked tough questions and got honest answers. It seems that right now, Corel has not filled those shoes. It's been months, with problems and issues posted with no resolution. Before, "bing", done. Many betas from various programs there. I pop in once every couple of weeks to see if anything new is happening, but nothing is.

VS is a tremendous product, but I think the marketing group they are looking at will only spend "$99.99" and nothing more. New buyers will never know about Smartsound, but the old timers who have gotten used to it, do. When they offer a plugin, I'm in. Upgrading now to X8U is a downgrade for me.

[skier-hughes]

Well that might of course have happened, though it would have been nice if either (a) they told us that had happened; and/or (b) they still offered an SS plug-in for those who wanted it.

Wouldn't everyone just moan like they are with the BD plug-in

[Electrojake]

I see on the SS site that they sell plugins for 30-50$, so maybe the problem is not corel but SS ?
What if SS raised their license fee to corel?

Regardless...
VideoStudio X8 without SmartSound integration should have been explained to us somewhere in the release notes of x8.

BTW; Earlier in the pre-release cycle I was in contact with SmartSound sales and it was obvious that they were totally unaware that SmartSound integration was dropped from VideoStudio X8.
The SS sales group said they were inquiring with their senior management for an investigation into the matter.
After several rather informative back & forth emails, they (SmartSound) said they would be getting back to me soon as they had more info on what happened to the integration in VS X8. <go figure>

SmartSound customer service was nothing short of outstanding throughout our discussions!
Regards,
-Ej-

[TonyP]

Smartsound has always had excellent customer support. When Pinnacle decided to drop them, I too emailed them. The matter was in Pinnacle's hands, the way it is with VS. Since having the program as a plugin has shown to already "work", selling a plugin would not be a big thing, at least to me.
I don't know any software that says what they are removing from a version. Only what "new" thing they have added. Corel is no exception. Unless the users say something, Corel will not know....

[Electrojake]

I don't know any software that says what they are removing from a version. Only what "new" thing they have added. Corel is no exception.
Unless the users say something, Corel will not know...

Gads, that's a great business model. <sarcasm intended>
But as usual TonyP, your statements are spot on. I agree.

I have no allegiance to Corel and look at them as the problem here and not the cure. However, I fully understand that Corel has a business to run and the customer's personal desires are looked at as little more than baggage for their customer relations department to juggle. And honestly, I have no problem with that.
Like many have stated here in other threads; "Guess I'll just wait to see what x9 brings us next year".

At my hobbyist level of video production I would gladly jump-ship to any other (non-Corel family) video editing product that allows SS integration.
And yes I have looked at the Adobe (subscription based) products and am less than excited about handing my credit card info over to yet another vendor for perpetual charging considering my simple and amateur editing needs.
So VideoStudio X7 is where I'll stay...
...with a paid, unused, copy of X8 sitting on my hard drive, complete with its impotent and laughable ScoreFitter button.
-Ej-