X7 Clip volume control doesn't work?

[wormil]

VS X7, Win7

Sometimes I want to drop the volume of a video clip or reduce the volume of a music track. Per the manual -- Double clicking a music or voice track brings up a window with a clip volume control where I should be able to change the volume with either a slider or set a numeric value. On a video clip, I click on the sound mixer icon and go into attributes to access the same volume control. If I set the volume to zero, it silences the clip but any other setting makes little detectable change. A setting of one is nearly the same as one hundred. Is this a bug or am I misunderstanding the function of clip volume control?

My workaround is to use the mouse and manipulate the yellow bar on the clip itself but that is more work and slower when I want to reduce volume for the whole clip. Those bars are also small and a bit tricky sometimes to grab and move exactly the amount you want.

[Ken Berry]

When you adjust the volume, do you then play back the clip in Project mode or Clip mode? If the latter, then it will always play the original volume level. You have to use Project mode to see or hear the effect of any editing you do to a clip. The Project and Clip buttons are immediately below the preview screen under the 'Trim Markers' line...

[wormil]

There is a tiny change in volume. The difference between 100 and 6 is about 1 decibal, maybe; even in the final rendered video.

Wait, wait! After typing above I started playing around with it some more. If I drop from 100 to 6, there is almost no change in volume. If I drop from 100 to 1 then it gets very quiet. And if I click the little arrow buttons to gradually raise volume, it works. So there is some kind of bug there but at least I figured out I can make it work. Now if only I could change volume in real time like Sony, oh well. Audio is very tedious in VS.

Okay, more playing around and I realize that typing numbers into the field doesn't set the volume correctly unless those numbers are 100, 1, or 0. Ugh, I really love this software but what's bad is really bad.

Going to post this now. If I figure out anything else, I'll post it later.

[Ken Berry]

A bug is only a bug if it can be widely replicated by others. So far, you seem to be in a very small minority (of one?!) having this problem. What happens when you play it in Project mode as I suggested above?

[asik1]

If a constant audio level is needed to be preset over a clip, one can spit audio and apply AMPLIFY filter (right mouse) with a set level.

[lata]

Hi

I don’t like using the Sound Mixer to modify the volume levels, (Rubber Banding), I just find it difficult to control and not that intuitive….
I generally use the 100% level from the Video Tab, I do not select Sound Mixer.
Try this……………

With your clip in the top timeline, do not Split Audio
Use the scissors to cut the clip into sections, 4 will do.
The first clip will be set to 100%
The next to 40%
The third to 10%

Play the clip in Project Playback.—Does that show a difference in levels.

The remaining clip, the fourth segment edit in Sound Mixer.
Select the fourth clip to set the curser to the beginning of that clip
Switch to Project Playback by clicking the word adjacent to the play button.
Adjust the Volume slider from “0” to “-36”
Play in Project Playback

Does that retain the levels?

[wormil]

Hi

Does that retain the levels?

So I did this. The difference in volume is not what I would expect, to me it's still too loud until I get below a setting of "5" but chopping it up does make the changes in volume a lot more obvious.

Last night I poorly communicated the issue. Let me start again -- I have to make drastic changes in the volume setting to effect minor changes in actual loudness. If I turn the volume knob on my stereo down halfway, I expect a significant drop in loudness from the speakers and in my testing of other video editors, they affect loudness the same way. Corel is not working that way. Changing the volume from 100% to 50% makes only a very small change in loudness. If I add a music track and want it quietly playing in the background, I have to set the volume down to around "5" or below. That means a very small usable range in the volume control. Going into sound mixer and dragging the yellow bar makes much more drastic changes in volume but is less convenient. Perhaps Ken is right, it is not a bug per se but if not a bug then I consider it a very poor implementation of volume control.

If I had to guess, the volume setting is working on a linear scale instead of logarithmic.

[Ken Berry]

The problem is that for some of us at least (most of us?), changing the numerical value from 100 to 50 will indeed drastically reduce the volume, just as going from 100 to 200 will produce a very noticeable increase. But the increase or decrease is not noticeable at all if you play the clip in Clip mode. It has to be played in Project mode for the volume change to be there...

[wormil]

The problem is that for some of us at least (most of us?), changing the numerical value from 100 to 50 will indeed drastically reduce the volume, just as going from 100 to 200 will produce a very noticeable increase. But the increase or decrease is not noticeable at all if you play the clip in Clip mode. It has to be played in Project mode for the volume change to be there...

Yes it does happen in project mode. As I mentioned, it happens in the rendered video so really I don't care about "mode", I care about final product. I had the same issue when I trial tested Pro, which I uninstalled then later bought and installed Ultimate. I just haven't had time to think about it or try to figure out why it is happening until now. It's not a deal breaker, I knew of the issue before buying the software.

I used a decibel meter on my Nokia phone and here are the results averaged (in project mode with a video):
ambient 33 db
100% - 67 db
50% - 61 db
25% : 60 db
5% : 55 db

Decibel meter on an HTC phone (project mode/video):
ambient 33 db
100% - 64 db
50% - 62 db
25% : 59 db
5% : 58 db

Next I used a 2500 Hz test tone (project mode/test tone)
ambient 33 db (Nokia)
100% - 76 db
50% - 70 db
25% : 66 db
5% : 55 db

ambient 32 db (HTC)
100% - 74 db
50% - 68 db
25% : 65 db
5% : 53 db

edit: one more test. Moving the volume knob on my computer speaker by 1/4 changes volume by 11 db.

[lata]

Hi

I don’t know that much about DB levels or whether they are linier but would guess not.

I have rendered a short clip with varying audio levels set using the 100% options, not the Sound Mixer
4 seconds at 100% at 50% and 25% then 10 %

Certainly you can hear the difference between all settings.
View the clip in Sound Mixer to see the wave form which clearly shows each reduction.

Are you saying your version of video studio does not create a similar pattern?

Link to sample Mpeg4 20 mb
http://1drv.ms/ZwZjlR

[wormil]

It's hard to compare because the horn constantly changes volume. I had the same problem with my actual video clips so I switched to a test tone which is constant. I will check it out again later tonight when I have more time and try to upload a video showing my results.

My linear vs logarithmic statements are purely speculation, I'm far from an expert in sound. But a logarithmic control reduces volume consistently across the dial (like the volume knob on a stereo). A linear volume control will change little then has a drastic change at the very end, much like I am experiencing.

All this could be a peculiarity of my sound chip or a bad install, or it could be perfectly normal and it's just that most people aren't bothered by it or aren't using it. I don't know, which is why I posted. But the back and forth has helped my understanding and maybe at some point I'll figure out a solution. Thanks.

[wormil]

Update: I'm noticing the volume slider and clip volume do not match. Clip volume says 100, but the slider says 40%. If I set clip volume at 25 (slider says 10%) there is no sound whereas yesterday it was plenty loud at 25.

If a constant audio level is needed to be preset over a clip, one can spit audio and apply AMPLIFY filter (right mouse) with a set level.

The amplify filter is the way I will have to go. It changes volume in a very intuitive and expected way. Seems a shame I have to apply a filter just to change volume but there it is. I'm not screwing around with this business any longer, the filter works so I will use it.

Thanks everyone.