Announcing AfterShot 2: Intro'ing RAW to a wider audience!

[hannes_hab]

ASP 2 - ASP 2 Pro Comparison:
http://img.aftershotpro.com/en/pdf/afte ... arison.pdf
Funny - for ASP 2 Pro features are listed that does not exist yet, like the long awaited watched folder support (again - because bibble 5 had that feature) - so maybe this will be in ASP2.1 ?

[Arnfinn]

-AfterShot 2 is just one part of our ongoing AfterShot efforts. ASP2.1, which will deliver HDR on Mac/Linux, more camera profiles (incl. Fuji Xtrans!) and a few other things, is still in development and will enter a testing phase shortly. Stay tuned for updates
-Bug fixes/feature enhancements -- we continue to have a roadmap of ongoing updates, as we had after the launch of ASP2. We're a bit quiet with the updates right now as we work on ASP2.1, but expect these updates to continue.
-We're watching this forum and Facebook for your ideas and comments, as well as mining insight from our internal databases via our support team and our list of ideas/issues that date all the way back to the Bibble days). That said, keep the feedback coming.

Thanks for your attention!

Sincerely,
Greg

I hope you have noticed the demand for UI improvements and a gradient selection tool that works in layers. Thanks...

[df]

df is saw your PRO but I think there is general confusion among readers. Poor choice of name by Corel?
Personally I think Corel would have been better off putting all their eggs into a better PRO version rather than the backwards step where the market already has a zillion candidates for cheap/free converters. If the PRO was a market leader then great. But it's not.

regards

Well said. I agree.

[Arnfinn]

df is saw your PRO but I think there is general confusion among readers. Poor choice of name by Corel?
Personally I think Corel would have been better off putting all their eggs into a better PRO version rather than the backwards step where the market already has a zillion candidates for cheap/free converters. If the PRO was a market leader then great. But it's not.

regards

Well said. I agree.

On the contrary, a front end version might be the wisest descicion Corel have made so far. It doesn't need much marketing background to see that they now can apply a much wider and segmented marketing strategy, which eventually will build a much bigger user base for the AfterShot family. Once you have a built a new customer relationship, every other Corel product will benefit as it's far easier to sell complimentary or upgrade products to an existing customer than to a new lead. This is basic marketing and sales knowledge.

As AfterShot Pro users, we have seen the lack of development resources for a long time. The Corel Corporation doesn't have lack of development resources, but they assign their resources on their money makers. Since they aquired Bibble, ASP hasn't been a money maker. If it was, Corel would have assigned far more resources to the development looong time ago. You have all pointed out on this forum, over and over again how ASP can't compete with X or Y software, and how it lags behind in this or that way. You are right on many things for the PRO version, but a stripped down Front End version can compete on completely new and different markets.

The point to consider is that most of Corel's software portfolio is based around processing and designing with all kinds of media files. For image processing they have used the technology that is core to what is now ASP for much longer than they have had their fingers into ASP. Bibble Labs provided that technology to them. Almost everything at Corel centers around processing every kind of media files. The big thing is that the technological development has evolved beyond everyones wildest imagination, just a few years back. Now everyone has a camera in their cell phone, and different kinds of cameras are more common than not. Who would have thought of that 10 years back in time? This is a completely new market that didn't excist a few years back. What they all have in common is that they all need a way to store, organize and process their media files. Does the PRO version of ASP have the right selling point to these cutomers? No. Most of them will download apps and be happy with that, but eventually the amount of pictures and media files will be overwhelming and they will need a better solution. Some of them will enjoy taking cool pictures and upgrade to a better camera. When Corel can tap into a segment of this market, they will expand their customer base significantly. And once you are a customer, you are more susceptible to consider an upgrade or a complementary product.

If you take a look at the whole Corel family of software products, you will see quite clearly that AS/ASP do fill a big gap as an entry point to organize and process images. When taking a broader look it's quite obvious that Corel will put more resources into the technology. The only question is when. As with almost all other software they have aquired it takes time before that software gains momentum. Once it gains the appropriate amount of momentum it's as there's no limit to how much development resources they will put behind it. As of now, AS/ASP hasn't reached that momentum yet, but the descicion to have a front end to offer to new markets might be the best thing they have done so far. The final goal is to get more deveoloping resources assigned from Corel, and better sales to a broader market can help Greg and the deveolpment team to convince the management to do so. The end result will be a better product and solution for all of us.

I do hope that sales and marketing of AS will be a success, as it will benefit ASP and further development immensely...

[brucet]

I guess every user of ASP and now AS will have an opinion on Corels performance and strategy. Who's going to have the right opinion? Time will tell.

A couple of things to keep in mind. The market is not growing. Well not as it was. So in affect the pie has to be divided up into smaller pieces between the software producers. (Look at compact camera sales and the decline of DSLR sales). So Corel has a choice. Try to maintain its share of the pie or try to take some share of the pie away from someone else. (It's too late to make a bigger pie. The camera/phone market is satisfying the general snapper. It's only the enthusiast and pro that is now in the market. Yes I generalise). If Corel wants a bigger piece of the pie it has two choices. Add products to take share away from one of the many others. Or improve their share by gaining more with an improved product.

As I pointed out above. There are a zillion 'other' cheap or free products on the market now. ASP was/is in a market segment that has fewer competitors. Why would you not take a very good, very affordable, products and iron the few bugs out of it in an attempt to dominate the affordable market? Is the cost of producing/modifying ASP to produce AS so much different to polishing up ASP? A company based on profit will never compete against the 'free' software. Never. A free product with bugs is worth what you paid for it. But a budget product with bugs is a mistake.

I'm an 'average' semi pro user. I've dropped ASP because I found a free product that works better. My guess is that there are a few more out there just like me. BUT if ASP was tweaked and fixed I'd gladly jump back on board. A 'broken' product simply can't gain market share let alone maintain what it has. And if AS is the same 'broken' product but only stripped down then even free wont work.

I'll sit back and see who's right. Fix ASP and I'm a buyer again. As it is I'm not.

regards

[sbattaio]

I received an email from Corel with special pricing for Aftershot 2. I have a licensed copy of Aftershot Pro 1 and thought this was a special upgrade price for the new version. It took some checking around and a chat session with Corel to figure out that Aftershot 2 is actually a reduced/limited version of Aftershot Pro 2. Hate to say it, but I'm not interested in an even more limited version of an already limited piece of software--and it still does not support Fuji .RAF file format (even though support has been promised for a few years now). OnOne is currently offering its new Perfect Photo Suite 9 at a preorder price of $89 and it blows AS2/ASP2 into the weeds. I hate to say it, but why does it seem that Corel simply cannot get its act together on this particular piece of software?

[Arnfinn]

I guess every user of ASP and now AS will have an opinion on Corels performance and strategy. Who's going to have the right opinion? Time will tell.

A couple of things to keep in mind. The market is not growing. Well not as it was. So in affect the pie has to be divided up into smaller pieces between the software producers. (Look at compact camera sales and the decline of DSLR sales). So Corel has a choice. Try to maintain its share of the pie or try to take some share of the pie away from someone else. (It's too late to make a bigger pie. The camera/phone market is satisfying the general snapper. It's only the enthusiast and pro that is now in the market. Yes I generalise). If Corel wants a bigger piece of the pie it has two choices. Add products to take share away from one of the many others. Or improve their share by gaining more with an improved product.

You wouldn't believe how many other slr protographers that doesn't have a raw converter, and only photograph in jpeg because they haven't been told the benefits of using raw. It's not few. ..and they don't have any proper program yet to catalog and convert their images besides what's bundled with the camera they purchased. They are almost all interested in a better solution once they know that one excists. I have many times thought that the people that purchases an slr also knows something about cataloging and processing because they all have access to the information on the internet, but I'm still surprised at how few that's actually aware of and have utilized some degree of this. None of the commercial software vendors have utilized their true potential in this market.

And, what's wrong with being in a competitive market? Being in a competitive market doesn't mean that your product doesn't sell.
It's a big misconseption to think that you can't compete against free software. A very big misconseption. Take for instance the web plattform WordPress, a free CMS (content management system) for making websites that can be enhanced in any way possible by themes and plugins. The marketplace is flooded by the most fantastic free templates and plugins that in many cases outperform the commercial ones. It isn't a site or functionality you can't build using free add ons, often with the same ease of installing and operation as their commercial counterparts. Yet, the commercial market is hughe. People do willingly use their own money to buy the same functionality they can download from WordPress.org for free. Commercial products and themes are selling like hotcakes in a marketplace more than flooded with completely free alternatives.

As I pointed out above. There are a zillion 'other' cheap or free products on the market now. ASP was/is in a market segment that has fewer competitors. Why would you not take a very good, very affordable, products and iron the few bugs out of it in an attempt to dominate the affordable market? Is the cost of producing/modifying ASP to produce AS so much different to polishing up ASP? A company based on profit will never compete against the 'free' software. Never. A free product with bugs is worth what you paid for it. But a budget product with bugs is a mistake.

So, what should be different with an image processor like AfterShot in a marketplace filled with free alternatives? Human behavior and psychology. There can be thousands upon thousands of pages written about it regarding sales and marketing, and you wouldn't cover even a fraction on the subject. People like to buy. Exchanging something for something else. It's hardwired in our brains. Certainly, there are always those that's different, but the majority like to exchange money for something. Always. It never stops. There's a new sucker born every second. Why do people buy new shoes, when they have the whole closet full already? Why du people buy a new hammer, when they have three different ones already? You can name a zillion different examples. It never stops. People like to buy. Period. And why do people buy when they can get the same for free? Time after time..? The perceived value of something you have exchanged for money feels much higher than something you got for free. You can download the Open Office package for free, yet still most people will still exchange their valuable money for a package of MS Word or the Corel WordPerfect. Why? Perceived value.

You may argue all day long that the perceived value of ASP is really low because of the lacking quality and features of the software. Yes AS/ASP like most software is buggy and lacking features, and in some or the other way even lags behind even some free softwares in some aspects. How many of the potential new customers, or even excisting customers know this? How many ASP users has a broad knowledge of the competing products available out there? Much fewer than you would expect. I can guarantee you that. How many of the current ASP users visit this forum and read about the bugs and omissions this software has? Much fewer than you would expect. The perceived value is different for each individual, yet there are several ways to improve the perceived value.
When you ask a person if he/she is susceptible to different marketing techniques, almost everybody claims they are close to immune. Yet the very same marketing techniques works wonders. People make unbelievable amounts in competitive markets flooded with free alternatives. Every single day.

People purchase, even if they already have. How many has purchased more than one raw converter? I do.: ASP, DxO, Lightroom. At the moment I don't have Photoshop, but I will have a subscribtion soon. If you count the other packages that process and enhance images, I also have the full onOne suite (will upgrade to 9) and the complete Topaz Labs bundle and some other PS plugins.
If I were starting out without any of this and had my computer full of free solutions, I would still have been subsceptible to buy a commercial product.
Only the very few of the few of the potential new customers do their due dilligence in regards of the software they are buying, checking everythnig about the program and it's competition. Marketing works, and the market is far from saturated. People are always on the look for something new.

As for the front end AfterShot version. It has fewer features and competes at a lower price point than ASP. If we stick within the Corel family of users; How many people that owns a copy of PaintShop owns a copy of AS/ASP? Probably fewer than you would think. How many could need the solutions that AS/ASP provides? How many of those, really needs the extra features that ASP provides? How many of those have been on the fence because the price point of the Pro version has been too high until now?

Even though they have done nothing to change the pro version, it will sell/convert better with the option of a cut down version presented besides it. Why? Because now people have something to directly compare it with. This is a known fact in marketing. When given an option, more people will choose one of them (often the best) compared to when they are only presented to one choice. The same goes for how many times you are exposed to the product. While some people actively go out and seek for the best solutions for their needs, most people has to be exposed to the brand/product several times before they buy. Seven times is the average magic number. This is why we all are followed by the same ad's everywhere we go on the internet, wether it's on Facebook or other websites. It's called re-targeting, and works by you visiting an interesting website. That website installs a cookie on your computer, and the marketer knows that the likelihood that you were actually interested in that particular product or topic is very high and therefore exposing you for the same ad (or different variations) on the same product/brand everywhere his ad network can check for that cookie on your computer. This is how most internet marketing works now. Networks like Facebook has also a wide range of targeting options, where your ads can be displayed based on your area, gender, interests, groups and so on.

The point is that the market for either AS or ASP isn't small or limited. It's hughe and almost limitless. New marketing segments can be reached constantly with the tools and techniques that's already commonplace within the marketing community. The introduction of the front end AfterShot is the smartest thing Corel has done for the product so far, and rest assured, the fact that they have done this will gain better momentum also to ASP. Almost all the softwares Corel has aquired has had the same looong and slooow start that ASP has had before they gained enough momentum. Just look at the other softwares in the Corel portfolio. They doesn't seem to lack any resources in either development or marketing. If they get sales, there's practically no limit to how much resources Corel will throw into it. Corel is no small, close to broke garage developer.
They have always done it this way. They purchase a product, put a few developers into it, just to consolidate the situation and let it grow slowly. Once they see that it's gaining momentum, they throw their muscles into it. AS/ASP isn't there yet. It's still in the sandbox. Who knows how long it will remain in the sandbox? If they only had worked forward with the pro version, it might have remained in the sandbox for a long time still to come, but with the introduction of AS, which opens up to a more offensive and targeted marketing strategy and effort, it could be the very thing that gets it out of the sandbox more quickly.

I have had ASP since it was called Bibble 4. Even though I own other raw converters, and even though it lags behind in many ways and is buggy and lacking features I do still like it for what it does best. I have high hopes that it someday will be elevated out of the sandbox and become a real market leader in the pro segment of the market. As the rest of you, I have also had my shares of frustrations and disappointments all the way from when I first time I purchased it, but I still use it for all my photos. It's unprecedented when it comes to comparing, sorting and deleting new images. I even use it for organizing and finding the images I process in the other softwares I have. The ideal situation would be that It had the features and functions I have to go elsewhere to get also. Let's hope that the new twist to their product and marketing strategy would lead to something good, soon. Very soon, as I'm very disappointed with the looong and tedious progress so far. Only real results counts. Lets's hope and see what happens. Please, Corel. Get your acts together and get this train rolling. We all need it. You for your market shares and money, and us for our everyday needs. Please Corel, please...

[andysalay]

Excellently said, Arnfinn.
I cannot agree more.
Corel, you should wake up. The sooner you allocate more resources to ASP, the sooner you get huge reward back. ASP's concept has real potential.

I stopped using ASP, now happy with CaptureOnePro v7, considering upgrade to v8. Requires powerful PC, for my D800, though.
I instructed my brother-in-law, which is pro photographer into the RAW editing miracles.
(A year or two ago, ASP won't win at him, he stayed on JPEG and occasional RAW + Photoshop, even though I bought him ASP licence)

But now he liked C1 v7, and despite language barrier (he is no friend with english) he decided to give it a try after my presentation.
So I instructed him to buy C1 v7 with huge 50% discount, I was almost sure it is the sign of the version 8 arrival.
As he bought it on the very late august, he is eglible for the free upgrade. Nice win I think.

Sorry for buggy ASP, maybe sometimes...

Kind regards,
and wish a good light for all photographers

Andy Salay

[GoremanX]

I can't believe no-one is seeing this for what it really is... a round-about way of dropping Linux support. By releasing a "basic" version of AfterShot that doesn't run on Linux, Corel can later add the missing pro features back to the "basic" version and claim they're "unifying all versions to simplify choice for our consumers". A free migration is offered up to current pro users (this all happens during a product version upgrade), and suddenly the Linux version has been unceremoniously killed under the guise of product improvement.

It's not like AfterShot requires any less development resources than AfterShot Pro. They're the exact same codebase, AfterShot just has some features arbitrarily disabled compared to AfterShot Pro. So why would AfterShot cost less? Is Corel suddenly choosing to make a loss on the software for the benefit of their consumers? Heck no! Pro users are currently being gouged, and Pro Linux users will soon get the shaft.

Oh Bibble, how I miss you...

[Hobgoblin]

I can't believe no-one is seeing this for what it really is... a round-about way of dropping Linux support. By releasing a "basic" version of AfterShot that doesn't run on Linux, Corel can later add the missing pro features back to the "basic" version and claim they're "unifying all versions to simplify choice for our consumers". A free migration is offered up to current pro users (this all happens during a product version upgrade), and suddenly the Linux version has been unceremoniously killed under the guise of product improvement.

It's not like AfterShot requires any less development resources than AfterShot Pro. They're the exact same codebase, AfterShot just has some features arbitrarily disabled compared to AfterShot Pro. So why would AfterShot cost less? Is Corel suddenly choosing to make a loss on the software for the benefit of their consumers? Heck no! Pro users are currently being gouged, and Pro Linux users will soon get the shaft.

Oh Bibble, how I miss you...

I am inclined to agree with you and have already alluded to this on the Corel ASP Facebook page. There was of course no reponse!

R.