Corel and psd files

[MikeFromMesa]

As some of you may have seen I have been posting about 2 layer psd files created in Photoshop (both CS5.1 and CC 2014) only showing one layer when opened in X7. I submitted this to Corel Support to try to get this sorted out. Clearly Corel would not plan to lose one or more layers of a standard psd file by opening it. I uploaded 2 such files to Corel Support, one created by each of my two copies of Photoshop, and have been corresponding with them about this issue since. Here is the latest response from Corel Support:

This is a normal behavior of Corel programs opening PSD files, layers may not be present as it is automatically merged to one. In this case, Layer 0 is unable to be processed in PaintShop Pro that is why it is merged into one. I'm sorry for this inconvenience.

Can anyone tell me what they are saying? It seems to me that they are saying that all of the layers are merged into one but that is certainly not true of psd files created by X7 and saved. In addition I am completely confused by the statement that "layers may not be present...". It is a psd file and hence will always contain at least one layer. Or am I missing something here?

I really like X7 but a restriction that X7 will automatically merge all layers from non-Corel psd files when opened is something that will cause me to return the product. Perhaps I am reading this reply incorrectly?

[photodrawken]

In this case, Layer 0 is unable to be processed in PaintShop Pro that is why it is merged into one.

It probably depends on the type of layer that you created in Photoshop, as well as that layer's additional properties such as styles. If it's a layer/style that has no equivalent in PSP, such as a Smart Objects, etc., then it might be that PSP will just merge the layer(s).

As always, since there are other image editing applications out there, it's up to you to find one that handles those situations more gracefully.

[MikeFromMesa]

In this case, Layer 0 is unable to be processed in PaintShop Pro that is why it is merged into one.

It probably depends on the type of layer that you created in Photoshop, as well as that layer's additional properties such as styles. If it's a layer/style that has no equivalent in PSP, such as a Smart Objects, etc., then it might be that PSP will just merge the layer(s).

As always, since there are other image editing applications out there, it's up to you to find one that handles those situations more gracefully.

There was nothing fancy about the file. All I did was open Photoshop, then open 2 separate images. I then copied the second image and pasted it as a second layer in the first file. There were no special styles, no blending, no opacity changes, no adjustments, no masks, no smart layers. Just two simple images as separate layers.

I then saved the resulting 2 image layer file as a psd and opened it in X7. In X7 all I got was a single layer. The top layer was there, the second layer was completely gone.

I realize, of course, that there are other options available. It is just that I am very surprised that PaintShop Pro would not understand a simple 2 layer image file from Photoshop saved in psd format. I have nothing against Corel. In fact I have owned PaintShop Pro versions since X3 but only recently worked with Photoshop enough to understand what can be done. I was trying to see if there was true compatibility between the two when saving in psd format just in case I needed to switch off doing something in one app and then something else in the second and used psd files, almost for the first time, as an interchange medium.

[photodrawken]

There was nothing fancy about the file. All I did was open Photoshop, then open 2 separate images. I then copied the second image and pasted it as a second layer in the first file. There were no special styles, no blending, no opacity changes, no adjustments, no masks, no smart layers. Just two simple images as separate layers.

I then saved the resulting 2 image layer file as a psd and opened it in X7. In X7 all I got was a single layer. The top layer was there, the second layer was completely gone.

Yeah, that doesn't sound too good....

[Forriner]

Hi MikeFromMesa,

From everything I've ever found on internet I gather that a PSD with unsupported layer features results in merging on open in PSP.

Just for the heck of it, here's a thread from 2008

One of the things Corel should have to decide: really support or don't claim PSD compatibility. But it's Corel, trust them to miss some great opportunities that the Adobe CC movement affords them. They just don't seem to care.

[MikeFromMesa]

Hi MikeFromMesa,

From everything I've ever found on internet I gather that a PSD with unsupported layer features results in merging on open in PSP.

Just for the heck of it, here's a thread from 2008

One of the things Corel should have to decide: really support or don't claim PSD compatibility. But it's Corel, trust them to miss some great opportunities that the Adobe CC movement affords them. They just don't seem to care.

Personally I cannot imagine what "unsupported layer features" might be in this file since it is only 2 simple images combined as layers with no adjustments, no masks, no opacity changes, no locking, no style changes or anything else that might cause a problem. Just copied one image as a second layer for another image and then saved the combined 2 layer file as psd with the maximum compatibility setting. I was really pleased with X7 as a replacement for Photoshop as a general use tool but if I cannot count on opening simple 2 layer psd files then it is not of much use to me.

Actually I suppose I should try this without the maximum compatibility setting and see if that makes any difference. And, out of curiosity, see what happens if I do change some of the stuff that was not changed in the original psd file and see if that makes the file more "compatible" with X7.

UPDATE:

Just out of curiosity I decided to go back to the original psd file, load it into Photoshop (where it displays both layers) and do some fiddling around. Results:

1) save file as psd without "maximum compatibility" setting - X7 loads file but all image information is gone. All I get is a blank white layer.

2) adjust opacity to see what effect this has. Save file as psd with maximum compatibility and load with X7. Get a single layer with the same image as if I had flattened the original file in Photoshop.

3) reset opacity, create a layer mask and save as psd with maximum compatibility. Load with X7. Get a single layer with the same image as if I had flattened the original file in Photoshop.

It seems pretty clear that X7 just flattens the image when it loads it.

[Forriner]

I don't use Photoshop so I don't know what maximum compatibility means. Remove all features added since the first version?
When you save a .pspimage in, you guessed it, PSP, you can specify compatibility right back to PSP 5 (not X5, but 5).
Perhaps you could try something in photoshop to determine if there's a setting in photoshop? Non-compatibility with the latest CC version doesn't surprise me, but 5.1 is years old. Obviously only if you're interested; it should be up to Corel to document it somewhere.

regards

[MikeFromMesa]

I don't use Photoshop so I don't know what maximum compatibility means. Remove all features added since the first version?
When you save a .pspimage in, you guessed it, PSP, you can specify compatibility right back to PSP 5 (not X5, but 5).
Perhaps you could try something in photoshop to determine if there's a setting in photoshop? Non-compatibility with the latest CC version doesn't surprise me, but 5.1 is years old. Obviously only if you're interested; it should be up to Corel to document it somewhere.

regards

You can see the results of my "playing around" by changing some settings before saving the file in the UPDATE I did to a previous post. It seems clear X7 just flattens the file when it opens it. As to exactly what Photoshop means by "maximum compatibility", your guess is as good as mine, probably better. But X7 does not understand such a file at all. There is a similar problem with psd files created by OnOne's Perfect layers program. X7 flattens those as well.

It is really too bad. I liked X7 and thought it was a great buy, especially with Perfectly Clear included, but I need to be able to swap files between the two apps. Such is life ...

[Forriner]

Thanks for the reply. Good luck in finding a good combination that works for you.

[Tadjio]

I don't know or use PhotoShop but does it have any backwards compatibility options when you save?
Try saving as a 'very early version'. The 2008 thread suggests:

Ask whomever you got the .psd from to save it as a version 5.5 (I think) or earlier file.

[MikeFromMesa]

I don't know or use PhotoShop but does it have any backwards compatibility options when you save?
Try saving as a 'very early version'. The 2008 thread suggests:

Ask whomever you got the .psd from to save it as a version 5.5 (I think) or earlier file.

When you save a psd file in Photoshop you are asked if you wish "maximum compatibility". If you choose no it saves it as a current psd file (and X7 opens it as a blank white layer with no detail). If you choose yes it saves it as compatible with (I guess) older versions. This is the format I chose and the one that lost all information past the first layer.

What surprised me was the comment from support saying that this is what X7 does. Corel says that they are psd compatible and then they say they merge multiple layers when they open the file. It seems to me that it is one or the other. Either they are compatible or they are not. To say they are compatible and then to say they automatically merge any additional layers when they open the file seems very strange to me. How is that compatible? At least that is my opinion.

[hartpaul]

I have a copy of CS2 and also Photoshop Creative Cloud as well as PSP X6 X7 and X2, X3, X4, X5 and PSP8.
I took two portrait images 1333 x 2000 pixels and dragged and dropped them into both photoshops. Dragged thumb nail of one image on top of the other image and then saved that image which consisted of two layers as a psd file. I made sure that the option Layers was ticked.

I loaded that image to X6, X7 and PSP8 and in all cases the image showed as layers. There was absolutely no problem at all.
This was done under Windows XP and also on Windows 7.
No difference between 32 and 64 bit versions on the Win 7 laptops (two different laptops and 1 desktop ). All showed the two layers.

Can you prepare a small sample of a two layer image as a psd and perhaps upload it somewhere and provide a link for others to download and try.

[LindaSue]

I think the problem might have to do with the color model used when creating the layered image in Photoshop. I tried creating a 3-layered PSD in CS2 with the default color model and PSP8 gave me an error that the color model wasn't compatible with PSP. I was able to open the file in X7 but it had been flattened to one layer. However, I created another PSD with three layers and turned off all the color settings and both versions of PSP could open the file with layers intact. What I had to do when creating a new PSD image was to choose "Don't color manage this document" under the Color Profile setting.

[Forriner]

Speaking with X4 experience here. Normally with a flat file X4 warns (if warning is enabled in Preferences/Warnings, otherwise it just does it) that colours are converted from the file's colour space to PSP's sRGB space. Adobe often embeds Adobe RGB or an even wider Pro-something.

The suggestion is that the Adobe RGB (or anything other than sRGB) colour space in multi-layered images, makes PSP merge layers while converting to sRGB. So embedding sRGB in Adobe could solve the problem too.

For the first time ever, I wish I had Photoshop just to test the heck out of this. Including Photoshop layer types and/or characteristics that PSP doesn't have, and the other way around.

[LindaSue]

It was the default "sRGB" color model that caused the file to not open in PSP8 and to be flattened in X7. Here are the choices in CS2:

To get the file to open in PSP correctly, I had to switch to "Don't Color Manage this Document". I might try using "Adobe RGB" and see if that works. The one that's highlighted is the default setting.