Please Note: All PSPX7 Users

[yupus]

I think a change to an operating system is a bit different to adding a couple of new features to an existing program so you can charge for an upgrade. Plug ins are just that and given the number of threads on various different plug ins that worked under X6 it's looking pretty obvious that Corel did no testing in this area. Maybe you know different and know that the fundamental structure of PSP is now different and there's more than just a couple of new features. Doesn't look like it to me and, in this case, the problem as I see it lies squarely with Corel.

[ovalseven]

Have had this argument with Corel and in their arrogance the problem lies with the makers of the plugin and them not supporting Corel's 'upgrade'. Suffice to say I've had my money back on X7. Not fit for purpose.

So, by this logic, if you buy a computer with Windows8, and it does not support an older program like PSP9, you will blame Microsoft because the maker of PSP9 never upgraded their program to be compatible with something that didn't exist then? You would finc Microsoft arrogant if they tell you that Jasc/Corel never upgraded that old program and it is why W8 does not support it?

This is more like buying the newest K-Cup brewer and discovering that it doesn't support any of the K-Cups you already own.

[timmendorf]

These guys at Corel are not worth our time to explain to them the 250 + bugs which are in EVERY edition of PSP they brought out since PSP X. It's not that they can't check and their own programs before selling them to the public. It's all about OUR money. Why doesn't the Corel management doesn't fire these incompetent programmers?

Don't buy this program. The last halfway working edition is PSP X 2. X and X1 don't do anything. PSP 9 is much better. X3 doesn't work at all. They even don't care about their bugs and tell the users = BUYERS by email to buy the next program edition. X4 is nearly as buggy as X3. X5 is at least workable. I don't know X6 and I don't want to get to know it.

Some examples of bugs which live there from X: If you change from Edit to Manage workspace you loose all your icons in Edit workspace. They know that and don't care for years now.
Try to just change the workspace color of the Edit pane: It doesn't work, if you are already in the Edit pane. You have to go back to the Manage workspace and change the color there, go back to the Edit workspace and loose all your icons. And so on and so on.

They just don't care. Don't buy this program, never!

[hartpaul]

Interesting logic:

"Some examples of bugs which live there from X: If you change from Edit to Manage workspace you loose all your icons in Edit workspace."
"The last halfway working edition is PSP X 2"

Manage mode was only introduced from X4. Up till there we were happy without Manage mode. So why complain about bugs introduced with manage mode.
Solution : Don't use manage mode. I use only Edit mode.

I agree that X2 was a great version. I use that for most of my processing of photos sometimes 500 + in a session. I can set up a customised toolbar which has my most commonly used processes - Levels, Brightness/Contrast, Red/Green/Blue, Hue/Saturation/Lightness/, Select None, Chromatic Aberration, Drop Shadow, Centre in Canvas, Unsharp Mask.

This contains choices from Adjust, Selection, Effects, Objects and File Menus and saves a lot of time in searching for the menu items, as well as the up and down movement of the head looking for shortcut keys.

I place my left middle finger over the Enter key (as the default option is accept in most dialogs), index on the Shift and thumb on control keyon the right hand side of the keyboard, little finger does double duty on the Alt key and Space Bar. Work in Untabbed mode
So processing is: Red/green/blue- adjust and then hit Enter, Levels - adjust Enter, Close Image button Enter.

I can use the mouse scroll wheel to zoom into the corners without having to use the side and bottom scroll bars. The image AND window both resize to suit (Photoshop no window resize, Photoline no scroll zoom or window resize). PSP later versions could not scroll zoom into the corners.

I can also hold down the space bar to drag the window over a large image to where I want with any tool except the crop tool.(Same in Photoshop and Photoline)

I can also hold down the Alt key and moving the cursor up and down on the screen changes the brush size in most tools that have a brush size adjustment. I can also adjust the size of brushes using the mouse scroll wheel ). Both of these allow on the fly changing of the brush size to suit the image and magnification. (Neither available in Photoshop or Photoline)

With the erase brush left click drag erases and right click drag unerases (Not in Photoshop or Photoline).

Cloning - Right click chooses source and left click to clone. (Alt left click in Photoshop and Photoline to choose source)

Changing colors with the rainbow in Materials is as fast as a left and right click. (more complex in Photoshop and Photoline)

Making a copy of an image to work on is as easy as draging the layer thumbnail to an empty part of the workspace. (Not in Photoshop or Photoline).
Paste as new layer is as easy as dragging the thumbnail of one image onto another image. (Works in Photoshop, not Photoline)
Text or small image on a transparent background, drag and drop to empty workspace makes a cropped copy. (nonexistent in Photoshop or Photoline)

To use Photoshop or Photoline for all these basic operations would be so slow compared with the streamlined PSP I would feel handicapped.
I note that the arrangement of tools in PS CC is now similar to PSP, while Photoline is a nightmare.

As to problems:
In X7 on XP computer the Corel Vintage script does not run and crashes the program. Solution: If I must use that script save the image as a PSP document and do the vintage script in another version.
In X6 (without SPs) one of the early bugs was that if you were using the Image Extractor and wanted to change the accuracy after the first process then it crashed. Solution : Don't use X6 for that use X5 or earlier.
For each bug that has been introduced there are other alternatives and the big advantage is that you can have multiple different versions of PSP installed and run different versions at the same time.

STOP THE PRESSES - Oh and new feature just discovered now. XP and Win 7. Open one image in X4 and a different one in X2 . Drag the layer thumbnail from X2 down and over the other X4 taskbar icon - the X4 window shows and the image from X2 can be pasted as a new layer on the image in X4 or as a new image. So you don't even have to close one program and open the other to transfer the images from one version to another.

Yes it would be nice to have a fully operating program with no bugs at all, but considering the complexity of the program it would have to cost in the region of Photoshop to solve the problems . In addition I would suggest that none of the people on this forum using PSP has tried or used every permutation of every tool and operation. I have been using it for over 10 years and am still learning new functions of older operations and tools. eg the spacebar drag and the Alt change brush size have only been learned in the last 3 months.

Now imagine Corel programers change the programming of one feature. They would then have to go through all the permutations to make sure that the change does not affect another perhaps unrelated tool or function. In X6 the Image Extractor was corrected but then the Zoom tool had problems. Of course if the program were rewritten from scratch in a modular form so that changes in programming of one module were limited to only that module and data passed from that module was not using space that could be affected by data from another module then we might get a fully bug free program, but I feel such animal has not been made yet.

[photodrawken]

I agree that X2 was a great version.

Yep. It was pre-installed on my new notebook at the time and it was X2 that started me on my PSP journey.

I can also hold down the Alt key and moving the cursor up and down on the screen changes the brush size in most tools that have a brush size adjustment. I can also adjust the size of brushes using the mouse scroll wheel ). Both of these allow on the fly changing of the brush size to suit the image and magnification. (Neither available in Photoshop or Photoline)

Nope. PhotoLine uses an outstanding method -- hold down the Ctrl key and drag with the left mouse button to change the brush size, hold down the Ctrl+Shift keys and drag with the left mouse button to change the softness of the brush.

To use Photoshop or Photoline for all these basic operations would be so slow compared with the streamlined PSP I would feel handicapped.
I note that the arrangement of tools in PS CC is now similar to PSP, while Photoline is a nightmare.

One man's nightmare is another man's dream. PhotoLine has so many more high-end features than PSP that it's really PSP that can be a nightmare to use -- all I need to mention is that PhotoLine has a real Gradient tool. Just compare using PL and PSP to precisely apply (and modify) a gradient to a mask layer (or any layer).

Tool arrangements are tool arrangements are tool arrangements. Modify your workspace to suit yourself, and using any program will become second nature after a while....

[photodrawken]

Yes it would be nice to have a fully operating program with no bugs at all, but considering the complexity of the program it would have to cost in the region of Photoshop to solve the problems .

Like I keep saying, it's a new day -- PhotoLine costs 59 euros and can definitely be a complete Photoshop replacement.

Of course if the program were rewritten from scratch in a modular form so that changes in programming of one module were limited to only that module and data passed from that module was not using space that could be affected by data from another module then we might get a fully bug free program, but I feel such animal has not been made yet.

That gets to something I've long since felt about PSP -- that it has a whole lot of legacy code left over from the early days that are not best programming practices anymore, and has become like a house of cards, without a strong foundation.

[Cassel]

This is more like buying the newest K-Cup brewer and discovering that it doesn't support any of the K-Cups you already own.

But what if you buy a new brewer and try to use the old cups you bought from a totally different manufacturer? They might or might not fit. Who is responsible?

Oh, and by the way: K-Cup® packs are not compatible with the Vue® Brewer (and that is the SAME manufacturer!)

[hartpaul]

I notice Ken had a fast response to my criticism of Photoline.
That feeling that Ken had and his defence of Photoline is what PSP users have when he continually pushes Photoline on this PSP forum.

He justifies that by saying that Photoline has "so many more high-end features" yet ignores many of the basic low end features that are made so easy in PSP .

I believe that the majority of users (which includes the facebook /flickr users market) will be using these low end features to prepare images for uploading to webpages, in which case they will not need so many of these high end features.
I came in on PSP 8 and still use most of the features that program had. It is much more intuitive than either Photoshop or Photoline.

I mentioned 9 features of PSP that I looked for in other graphics programs before I would consider using another program and Ken only addressed one that Photoline also had but also mentioned an improvement in that Control Shift and moving horizontally also changed the hardness of the brush.

Even when I tried to change the basic Photoline toolbar to make it go down the side it still stays in two rows and the icons are very small reminiscent of Photoshop CS2. The small arrow for the alternatives to one icon is so very small it is difficult to hit.

In PSP X6 the down arrow which allows selection of other icons is as large as the whole Icon and its alternative in Photoline.


Two of the most used items for me are the crop and straighten tools. In PSP it is easy to switch from one to the other and using the straighten tool you have the option to auto crop or not. Photoline does not appear to have this feature . I did a Google - Photoline Straighten tool and it took some reading to find out where the straighten tool was and how to use it. The Straighten tool is hidden beneath the Crop tool and you have to draw a line and then it automatically straightens and crops.

Occasionally I require a straighten without a crop as it would crop an important part of the image. So I clone in extra at the sides to allow a crop without cutting off the important part.
Yes Photoline has a lot of different tools and also different ways of using tools. For those using PSP for a long time the use of Photoline would be too much new stuff to even consider.

Even Photoshop allows the scroll wheel to zoom in to the image to make the image scale larger. Photoshop ignores the use of the right click mouse button except for context menus. Photoline ignores the use of the mouse scroll wheel , it just rolls the image up or down.

The eraser brush in Photoline is not intuitive. I could not find out how to promote a background to a layer to allow erasing to transparency. So many simple things made difficult. Found it!.

Photoshop uses right click on layer and Layer From Background but still have to close a dialog box , PSP uses Right click > Promote Background Layer and its done, Photoline uses click on info button at bottom of layer palette, opens new palette with Tabs: Document, Page, Layer. then you have to go down to the Kind line and tick a box to allow transparency... whew!! Too much information!!! Yes it may have so much more than Photoshop, but it is inefficient.

Yes I am happy (not totally happy) with PSP, but I do object to the door to door salesman tactics trying to sell me Photoline on this a PSP Forum page.

[ovalseven]

This is more like buying the newest K-Cup brewer and discovering that it doesn't support any of the K-Cups you already own.

But what if you buy a new brewer and try to use the old cups you bought from a totally different manufacturer? They might or might not fit. Who is responsible?

Oh, and by the way: K-Cup® packs are not compatible with the Vue® Brewer (and that is the SAME manufacturer!)

I used this analogy because the newest Keurig machine, in fact, doesn't support the old K-Cups despite them being the exact same size. Customers are upset and are returning the new brewer to the store. I don't think anyone really cares who's responsible, they just want to spend their money on something that's compatible with what they have.

If Corel wants to sell X7, why not support the same plugins that worked in X6?

[Cassel]

If Corel wants to sell X7, why not support the same plugins that worked in X6?

Probably because Corel is evolving and being made compatible with the newer technologies (newer operating system) instead of checking for things that are older and not updated?

[ovalseven]

If Corel wants to sell X7, why not support the same plugins that worked in X6?

Probably because Corel is evolving and being made compatible with the newer technologies (newer operating system) instead of checking for things that are older and not updated?

Why not do both? If backward-compatibility is not among the newer technologies, it might cost them in sales. It seems a risk they're willing to take.

[photodrawken]

I notice Ken had a fast response to my criticism of Photoline.
That feeling that Ken had and his defence of Photoline is what PSP users have when he continually pushes Photoline on this PSP forum.

I don't know what "feeling" you think I had, but I assure you that I am serene in my decision to use PhotoLine as my primary image editing application. Forum participants are well aware of my preference for PhotoLine, as well as the fact that I will still keep PSP installed for reasons I listed in another thread.

There is no need for me to "defend" PL -- on the contrary, my response to your message was simply to correct the specific errors you posted.

He justifies that by saying that Photoline has "so many more high-end features" yet ignores many of the basic low end features that are made so easy in PSP .

I'm still waiting for you to describe how "so easy" it is in PSP to work with gradients....

It's certainly not my intention here to debate the pros and cons of the two programs, but fairness demands that I briefly correct some of your inaccurate descriptions of using PL:

• You don't have to "hit" the icon's down arrow. Just hold down the mouse on the icon itself to see the other tools.
• You are correct that the toolbar icons cannot be set to a single column. However, as your screenshots show, it occupies the same amount of screen real estate as the PSP toolbar.
• If you don't like small icons, you can change their size in the program's preferences -- small, medium, or large.
• If you don't want the image automatically cropped, as happens when you use the Straighten tool, instead use the Rotate Layer menu item. That allows you to either specify an angle or drag a line to straighten the image and does not crop the image.

In short, it seems to me that most of your criticisms of PL stem from your unfamiliarity with the program. Instead of spending your time "Googling", you would have been better served by reading its Help file.

PhotoLine is a complex program, and there's no denying that there is a learning curve with it. I freely admit that I felt frustrated at first when some of the usual methods I learned with PSE and PSP weren't the same, but with some reading and practice I was able to learn how to do everything, and more.

Yes I am happy (not totally happy) with PSP, but I do object to the door to door salesman tactics trying to sell me Photoline on this a PSP Forum page.

Sorry, dude, but I've never tried to "sell" PhotoLine in this forum. I've mentioned my preference for it, and I've corrected misstatements about it, and I've pointed out the fallacy of claiming that the only way to get high-end editing features and a bug-free environment is to purchase the insanely expensive Photoshop.

No program will be "right" for every user. We all will examine our options and decide what works best for us.

[DPainter]

I think that X7 is the worst. Each new version has been going down hill in so many ways but this one has bottomed out my patience and tolerance for stupidity, bloat ware and making things take 5 to 6 steps more to do the same things older versions did in less moves.
Tools that don't work as well as they did before. X7 color patch, the gradient tool have gone from stupid to unusable, wont work. I'm not interested in saving every change I make to a gradient.
I'm not buying or paying for support.
I'm done with buying any more coral products.
I don't understand why people find it necessary to take something that works and make it into something that is so dismal, crap.

[mikesull]

I do not use Paintshop often but when I have used it I have found it to perform pretty much as advertised. Of course my usage is restricted to editing photographs so perhaps I have not encountered the more annoying problems.

[mjbjacko]

Is Corel ever going to release a service pack for PSP X7? I have now uninstalled it because the bugs make it virtually unusable for a number of operations and am back with X6. What a waste of money.