Crash when encoding DV type 2 file

[gigi10]

Whith program UMSPro 7.3, I get a fatal error when encoding a DV type 2 file from the timeline. Length : 33'33" - codec DV type 2 (USMPro 7) or Main Concept DV type (same error with both). DV file to get : 7,4 GO.
Error message (in french) :
"Application défaillante veditor.exe, version 7.3.0.0, module défaillant uvavi.vio, version 7.3.0.0, adresse de défaillance 0x0002c197".

When I encode only a limited part (beginning, or middle, or the end) of the project, that works well.

During encoding the whole project, the first counter (estimation of disk space) increases up to 7.4 GO, and the second counter (real disk space)increases first to about only 6.5 GO instead of 7.4, and after that, the first counter decreases to the value of the 2nd counter, and the crash comes.
The hard disk where is the final file is unreadable, and the only solution is to delete it with a DOS command.
Via DOS, I can see the length of the file : 7,6 GO !

The project contains video files DV avi type 2 audio 48 khz 16 bits captures with U Video Studio 8, transitions, objects from Cool 3 D, titles from UMSPro, titles from CG Infinity, WAV audio files, several video filters, one JPEG file.

What is wrong ? = Uvavi.vio ? Is there a limit of file ? .... Too much complexity in my project ?

By the way, I have 6 different folders "Vio" with inside a copy of "Uvavi.vio" with different dates of creation = Cool 3D 3.0, MovieFactory 2.0 and 4.0(2 files), USMPro 7, UVS8.

I need help !

[Devil]

Hmmm! I wonder whether there is a problem with the French version??? I don't have this problem with the English one.

Could you please try it with the DV Type 1 codec, just to see whether it is the same?

A few small points:
There is no MSPro DV codec. The default one is the Microsoft. Which version do you have installed (also a run-down of your hardware and OS would be helpful, especially which HDDs you are using and their free space.)

It may be you are short of space where you have set your temp files. Do you have Smart Render set when rendering? If not, this can cause your HDDs to go nuts.

Your English is excellent, but other readers may not know that a byte is an octet in French (hence GO will really throw them)

Meilleures salutations du Diable!

[gigi10]

Bonjour le Diable,

Thank you to be interested in my problem. I'll try to think bytes instead of octets.
Following your questions :
About my computer : Windows XP home edition Version 5.1.2600 SP2 Nu 2600 - directx 9.0c - 2 phys. HDD and 4 virtual disks (C,H,I,J)
On C: are the programs and Temp files, free disk space 37 Gb
H: free disk space 22 Gb, where I want to write FV file.
Version of Codec DV Microsoft : msvidc32 5.1.2600.0
Camcorder Canon MVX35i (video PAL - recording 16:9 and PCM 16 bits 48 khz). Capture via port IEE - 1394 (mothercard)

I have made several tests :

a) from UMSP 7, creating a DV file type 1 (codec microsoft - RVB 24 bits - audio DV PAL 48 khz 16 bits - 720*576 16:9 - Smart Render : enable)
Got DV file length 7113 Mb. Playback OK

b) from UMSP 7, converting this new file to another, format DV type 2 (same codec - audio PCM 48 khz 16 bits)
the first counter (estimate) increased up to 7461 Mb, when the 2nd counter (real) did reached 7099 Mb, the 1st counter decreased from 7461 Mb to 7099 and an error message came.

c) With Dvconverter (freeware), same test as b) above:
Got a file without error, length 7636 Mb. But when playback, OK until 18'53", after that no more audio. Video is OK all the length of the file.
Audio is missing from 18'53 to the end 33'33.

18'53, that means 4 Gb ! (7636+video missing)*18,8/33,5 = about 4400 Mb. That would say there is a limit somewhere in the codec or in another program. What is the job of uvavi.vio ?

Do I be dreaming or not ?

[Greg]

are your HDDs FAT32 or NTFS??

Regards,
Greg

[Devil]

Yes, it looks as if Greg has hit your problem on the head of the nail. If you go into Computer Management|Storage|Disk Management, it will tell you what your system is set for. If you find they are FAT32, go into Start|Run and type:
convert d: /fs:ntfs /v
where d: is the reference to the disk you wish to convert. Note that you will not lose any data during conversion, but the performance of the disk will not be optimised until you reformat it.

[gigi10]

Bonjour,

My 2 HDD are "NTFS"

[Devil]

Zut, alors!

Re-reading your 2nd message, I'm beginning to wonder whether your original AVI file isn't corrupt. Have you tried capturing another one of about equivalent length and seeing how that behaves? Also, can you re-render your original file (Smart Render off) from the MSP timeline back to MS DV Type 1?

Nous en sommes maintenant réduits aux râclures

[gigi10]

Bonjour,

Have you tried capturing another one of about equivalent length and seeing how that behaves?
Not yet. Every action (capture,inserting in timeline,creating file) takes a long time. But, I think I'll do that.
----------------------------------------------
I think I must explain to you why I wanted to create a DV file type 2 :
Before using UMSP, I used to create a DV file whitch was useful for :
- converting to MPEG file and burning a DVD
- saving as a master file by copying it on the tape of the camcorder.
that was in 4:3 format.
----------------------------------------------
Now, I use UMSP for getting 16:9 videos. That's my first video in 16:9 longer than 30'.
- from the timeline, I created a MPEG file and burned it (Factory 4) on a DVD = OK, good quality (bit rate 8000)
- from the timeline too, I printed a file on the tape of the camcorder (file/print on tape/timeline ...) = OK, that works !, video 16:9 and audio all the time when reading with the camcorder, I wonder about the quality of the video, that seems a little bit not so well. Could be a problem if later I need to do a new capture.
-----------------------------------------------
About that last point, I made today some short tests :
- with a video clip 16:9 from the camcorder in the timeline (151779 kb - 40"), I created a DV type 2 file = 152676 kb - 40"
- as told above, I created a file on the tape of the camcorder, captured it with Videocapture and inserted it in the timeline = 147453 kb - 39"
(about 4000 kb less than the original)
This is the only test I did, I think some other users can do the same and report their results in this forum.
------------------------------------------------------
Conclusion :
With UMSP, I don't need to create DV file for the moment. But, when I'll have time, I'll do some other tests ... I want to know !

Do you have another solution for saving without losses ?
Que pensez-vous de tout celà ?
Gigi10

[/u]

[Devil]

Re-bonjour, chère Madame (je suppose que Gigi signifie une dame)

I think I must explain to you why I wanted to create a DV file type 2 :
Before using UMSP, I used to create a DV file whitch was useful for :
- converting to MPEG file and burning a DVD
- saving as a master file by copying it on the tape of the camcorder.
that was in 4:3 format.

You do NOT need DV type 2 to do either of these operations and I consider type 1 as preferable, because the audio is interleaved with the video.

Now, I use UMSP for getting 16:9 videos. That's my first video in 16:9 longer than 30'.
- from the timeline, I created a MPEG file and burned it (Factory 4) on a DVD = OK, good quality (bit rate 8000)
- from the timeline too, I printed a file on the tape of the camcorder (file/print on tape/timeline ...) = OK, that works !, video 16:9 and audio all the time when reading with the camcorder, I wonder about the quality of the video, that seems a little bit not so well. Could be a problem if later I need to do a new capture.

Two issues here. For DV input, there is no real advantage in going over a bit rate (constant) of 6000 kbit/s. For long projects where you must have a considerably lower average bitrate, you should limit it to 6000 kbit/s max. Why? a) because the quality of DV is not perfect in itself. b) many DVD players do not like high bitrates on writeable media.

Maybe you are now aware that the quality of a DV transfer in either direction cannot be changed because it is a simple copying of digital data. This is because you are simply copying a data stream from one medium to another. IOW, if you export a DV file from the computer to the camera and then reimport it to the computer, the new AVI file should be identical to the old one (I'm assuming your camcorder doesn't do something stupid like recording it in tape from an analogue signal). I have a DVCAM drive in my video computer and I have checked that there is no difference between the exported and imported files with it.

About that last point, I made today some short tests :
- with a video clip 16:9 from the camcorder in the timeline (151779 kb - 40"), I created a DV type 2 file = 152676 kb - 40"
- as told above, I created a file on the tape of the camcorder, captured it with Videocapture and inserted it in the timeline = 147453 kb - 39"
(about 4000 kb less than the original)
This is the only test I did, I think some other users can do the same and report their results in this forum.

It is normal that a DV 2 file is slightly longer than a DV 1 one, as the audio is a separate sub-file with its own header.

The change of duration and file size may be due to the time required for the camera head motor getting up to speed and the recording actually starting or the capture settings forcing a delay before the transfer starts: in reality, there are several possible reaons for losing a second.

Conclusion :
With UMSP, I don't need to create DV file for the moment. But, when I'll have time, I'll do some other tests ... I want to know !

Do you have another solution for saving without losses ?
Que pensez-vous de tout celà ?

Que pense-je ? You are on the right path but you have a little way to go to acquire the experience which comes from tests. I've been using MSP since v. 2 but I still surprise myself when I have to do a test to achieve this or that and discover something new that I never realised I could do with it.

You cannot profitably do lossless work. DV is a very low-loss system, but it is still lossy. As long as you keep everything with the DV codec, the additional losses with DV become visible only after several generations of copies. The only true lossless system is RGB and this would be a steam hammer to crack a DV nut, requiring high performance hardware.

Une dernière question: are you using PAL or SECAM?

[gigi10]

Re-bonjour le Diable,

As written in my posts, I'm using PAL 720*576 16:9.

[b]If I understand well what you say, it is better to keep always DV 1 :
- for captures
- in the parameters of the project in VideoEditor.
That's all.[/b]
It is true that a copy to tape is now very fast (done test).
Only if necessary: convert DV 1 to DV 2.
I'll do that for the next video.

(For your comprehension, I used DV 2 because in the notice of my camcorder it is written audio is PCM 48 khz 16 bits ... witch is the good parameter for DV 2 and not DV 1 !)

Un grand merci pour votre aide.
Thanks and best regards.
(monsieur) Gigi10

[Devil]

Salut. Mes excuses, cher Monsieur (Jean-Jacques???)

(For your comprehension, I used DV 2 because in the notice of my camcorder it is written audio is PCM 48 khz 16 bits ... witch is the good parameter for DV 2 and not DV 1 !)
Gigi10

Désolé, ce n'est pas vrai. I use DV1 at 48 kHz 16 bits every day. The two DV25 standards (IEC 61834 and SMPTE 314M) support this audio sampling. Also there is no difference in the audio data recorded between DV1 and DV2: it is only where they are recorded that is different and, unless I am mistaken, it is ONLY in the WIN AVI format that you have a choice of the integrated and separate AV headers. In other DV formats, your choice is DV or DV The IEEE-1394 standard (IEC 61883) which governs the transfer of DV does not make any differentiation, so the splitting of audio from video in DV2 must be done in the computer, idem the merging in the other direction.

I admit, I've never understood WHY there are the two AVI systems for DV, but I think that it may be an imperative to separate A from V with some hardware cards, such as the Matrox RT-X series, to make them consistent with their analogue functions.

[gigi10]

Salut le Diable,


I've fully understood.
Thank you very much again.

By the way, do you use Video Painter (Video Paint in french) ?
I posted a question yesterday.

Best regards.
(Gilbert) Gigi10

PS : pourquoi 'le Diable' ? moustache et barbe pointue ?

[Devil]

Quoique je porte moustaches et barbe plus ou moins pointue, c'est parce que j'ai un sale caractère

No, I've used VP only very sporadically and do not consider my knowledge sufficient to rate myself as expert. On the odd occasions I have used it, I fumble around like a beginner.