What file format exporting AVCHD back to Sony HDR-SR12E cam?

[sheltiephil]

When you are finished editing AVCHD files with Corel VideoStudio Pro X7, what is the exact file format for exporting back to the hard drive of the Sony HDR-SR12E handycam?

I used Sony Play Memories software to import AVCHD (.m2Ts) files at 1920x1080i PAL resolution. I tried rendering to several file formats after editing, but the files could not be exported in high definition back to the hard drive of the AVCHD camera.

I WAS able to import files from camera in Play Memories and then export them straight back to camera WITHOUT any editing, but of course you wouldn't bother doing this normally.

I grew to love using VS Pro X7 for editing sd footage from my mini dv camera. However, I've just purchased the AVCHD handycam.

Can anybody suggest the correct file format to produce for exporting edited footage originally captured on the Sony HDR-SR12E back to the camera?

[BrianCee]

With the files in the timeline have you tried choosing "Same as first video clip" as your output choice - that should produce a video which matches the import - does that not export back to your camera.

Is there a special reason you want them back in the camera - why not save them to a hard drive (maybe external) or USB stick - or nowadays an SD card.

[skier-hughes]

And how precisely are you trying to export back to the hdd on the cam?
Does the manual say you can do this?

[Ken Berry]

In my mind, export to camera mainly related to standard def DV/AVI and high def HDV -- and I never had any difficulty with these. But I would have thought producing video "same as first clip" then simply using Windows File Explorer to transfer that file back to the camcorder's SD card would have sufficed... In other words, I don't think the VS export function was meant to include AVCHD... though I would be happy to be proved wrong.

[sheltiephil]

Hi Ken, Brian and Skier,

I produced a file 'same as first video clip' and tried to export it to the camera's hard drive using the camera's software 'Sony Play Memories'.

I also attempted to copy and paste that file in Windows Explorer. Nothing appeared on the camera.

The only option to export to HD camera through VS ProX7 was in 1440x1080i resolution. That would sacrifice quality. So, perhaps an option is to buy the Pro Duo memory card recommended by Sony and jack the camera into the TV screen with mini to full HDMI.

We don't presently have a blu ray player, so perhaps short clips could be viewed in full high definition on the TV screen using a USB stick.

However, in the light of the above tests we will buy a blu ray player - possibly a Sony, which seems to play a range of media.

Thank you for your suggestions which over-ruled the other half-baked options. I bought a beautiful hard drive camera 2nd hand on ebay (with viewfinder that I so appreciate), so I now realize that it was false economy avoiding the purchase of a blu ray player. With this in mind it will be more fun trying out the blu ray burner on my computer.

Can you confirm that a decent blu ray player should play AVCHD formatted DVDs as well as blu ray discs? Will it be better to burn files from my AVCHD camera edited in VS ProX7 to blu ray rather than to AVCHD-formatted DVDs?

[lata]

Hi

You can burn HD MTS video files to a standard DVD using your standard DVD Burner, known as a “hybrid disc”
At 4.7 Gb will hold approx 30 minutes of MTS files at 18000kbps, you should run a few render tests to find the correct data rate to fit to disc.

These discs will only play using a Blu-ray Player.

A Bluray disc will hold 25Gb of data.

You can add your MTS files to a USB memory stick to play via your Bluray Players USB terminal.
Your standard DVD player may play these files, you may have to change the file extension from MTS to MPG.

[sheltiephil]

Thanks Trevor, I will burn a "hybrid disc" and view it with my computer's blu ray player. Soon I will buy some blu ray discs too. When I purchase the blu ray player to hook up to our HD TV, I'll try both types of discs and also playing files from a USB stick.

Thanks for being very helpful as I move up from standard def.

Regards, Phil

[erdna]

Hi Ken, on the "write back to cam" issue. Although I have no problem to write back to my AVCHD cam (in VSX6/7), even 1920x1080 50p, it doesn't seem to work for my old Sony SR11 (~same as SR12). I suppose this is because I have to write back to a Memory Stick card (used in the SR11) instead of an SD card. I think it has a slightly different folder strcture as the one that is used for SD cards and is generated by VSX

[Ken Berry]

sheltiephil -- when you buy your Blu-Ray player, it should have an "AVCHD" sticker along the top right front rim, along with all those other usual stickers such as "DivX" "DTS" Dolby" etc. This will indicate that it will indeed play AVCHD hybrid discs.

As for that export option you saw (1440 x 1080i) that would be be for the HDV option I mentioned above. HDV is high def mpeg-2 and comes as 1440 x 1080i anamorphic format. And it's not directly Blu-Ray compatible either.

erdna's helpful comment might also explain why you were having trouble getting your "same as" AVCHD to play once you transferred it via other means to the camcorder...

[sheltiephil]

Hi again Ken,

All is good, my new Sony BDPS1200 plays blu ray and AVCHD DVD discs.

I produced an AVCHD disc in VideoStudio Pro X7 and it played successfully.

However, to burn to blu ray I first had to export from VS to computer hard drive in AVCHD format and then burn in Cyberlink PowerDirector 11 because the necessary settings could be chosen in that program.

When I tried to burn to blu ray in VS Pro X7 I received an obscure message from Windows: Microsoft Visual C++ Debug Library: Debug Assertion Failed! After retrying, the program closed.

So I googled burn .m2ts to Blu Ray. There were lots of messages about the need to use specialized conversion programs, but A T Romano posted in the Premiere Elements forum that if you imported a rendered AVCHD movie with H.264 1920 x 1080i settings you could burn to Blu Ray in Premier Elements.

I found that I could choose those settings in Cyberlink PowerDirector 11, so I imported the file that had been rendered in VS Pro X7 to that program and successfully burned to BD-R and the disc played nicely on the stand alone Sony blu ray player as well as on my computer.

I know this won't help VS users who want or need to make blu ray rather than AVCHD discs. So, I guess I have two questions on their behalf.

Is there any improvement in quality on blu ray next to AVCHD discs? (I know that blue ray discs take longer productions).

Can those H.264 1920 x 1080i settings be chosen to burn to blu ray in VS Pro X7?

Regards, Phil

[lata]

Hi Phil

You should not have any problems in burning either a Avchd hybrid disc to standard DVD or a Bluray disc using Video Studio.

You created a HD video file (bluray compliant ) and used that to burn either a AVCHD or BD. By creating the file first overcomes the long render during the burner process. (Convert Title)

If you did not have a compliant video file and choose to burn your project files then the project would be converted prior to burning the disc/s.

Either way you choose to burn a disc there should be no problems and burning should complete successfully.

I was advised to burn a Blu-ray Folder, play that for quality check, use Img Burn to burn the actual disc. Actually that’s the process I used for standard definition DVD’s.

The error “Microsoft Visual C++ Debug Library: Debug Assertion Failed” really needs to be addressed that is not normal.
Hopefully Ken will have some idea as to the cause of that error?

Disc quality, I am on the same learning curve as yourself and have only burned two BD’s, prior to that I burned Hybrids, yes I think the quality of the BD is better than the Hybrid DVD.

Blu-ray properties can be the same as the AVCHD Hybrid settings, the only difference would be the Data Rate restriction of the Hybrid disc.

[Ken Berry]

I'm afraid I have no idea about that debug message: don't think I have ever seen it before. And a quick Google search reveals it is a common problem in many other circumstances, but attributable to Microsoft. However, the suggested reasons and solutions are all gobbledegook to me!

As for the quality of hybrid vs Blu-Ray discs, well, they should be equal if using the same AVCHD video. As you would be aware, a hybrid disc in fact contains a full Blu-Ray Folder with the same architecture as that on a full Blu-Ray disc. The only limitation is the amount of video that can be squeezed onto a DVD. But as mentioned above, burning an 18 Mbps AVCHD will allow around 25 minutes to be burned as a hybrid disc.

Notionally, converting the AVCHD to a Blu-Ray compatible mpeg-2 will allow a much higher bitrate to be used, and normally bitrate equates to quality. But the whole point of AVCHD is that while more highly compressed, and thus a smaller file size than mpeg-2, the algorithms are supposed to make the quality of such AVCHD equal to that of higher bitrate mpeg-2. Clear as mud???

[sheltiephil]

Hi Trevor and Ken,

Thanks for responding, I appreciate your interest. After posting my last message, I looked further in VideoStudio, found the (greyed-out) Project Settings button and clicked, found the (greyed-out) Change Mpeg Settings button and chose AVC (1920 x 1080, 50i, 18 Mbps). I didn't realize that the Blu-ray video settings were tucked away there.

Even with the changed settings I received the same error message regarding debug assertion (at the end of an apparent burn) and when I retried, the program closed. So, although being able to burn successfully to AVCHD disc in VideoStudio, I still have to export a file in AVC/H.264 format and re-import in another program (PowerDirector in my case) to burn to Blu-ray. All’s well that ends well for me personally, though.

I’ve never seen the Visual C++ message before in any program, and my i7 Windows 8.1 computer has been behaving flawlessly for a long time, and is faithfully maintained. I will google and see if I can make any sense of the gobbledegook! – But I am only a geek in as much as it takes to keep the desk top singing and use the (mainly a/v) programs installed.

I couldn’t actually see any quality difference between AVCHD and Blu-ray using the stand-alone Sony player, though we only have a 32 inch TV.

It is good to know that I can burn to Blu-ray using PowerDirector if producing a longer community video. These include festivals and markets in our little Tasmanian village. The short versions are on youtube and facebook, but were shot on a 3ccd sd handycam, as I’m just now graduating to hd.

I will be filming performers in AVCHD at our market this weekend. I wonder what the optimum settings will be for uploading to the liydalevillagemarket facebook page? Would the quality be better if uploading to youtube first and sharing to facebook from there?

Ken, what do you mean by “converting the AVCHD to a Blu-Ray compatible mpeg-2 “? As I’m happy with the AVCHD discs burned in VideoStudio and Blu-Ray videos edited in VS and burned in PowerDirector at 18 Mbps, I wonder what would be achieved?

Anyway, I do appreciate your help, Ken and Trevor.

Kind regards, Phil

[Ken Berry]

Ken, what do you mean by “converting the AVCHD to a Blu-Ray compatible mpeg-2 “? As I’m happy with the AVCHD discs burned in VideoStudio and Blu-Ray videos edited in VS and burned in PowerDirector at 18 Mbps, I wonder what would be achieved?

With your AVCHD project in the timeline, you go to Share and then choose mpeg-2 as the output format. Then click on the downward pointing arrow to the right of the Profile window and down towards the bottom of the drop down menu you will see 1920 x 1080 50i 35 Mbps. That is Blu-Ray compatible mpeg-2. And you notice that it has a bitrate almost twice that available for AVCHD output. That notionally would mean the quality might be higher, but as I also said above, AVCHD produces high quality output in a much more compressed space. So you end up with a very similar quality for a considerably smaller file if you choose AVCHD instead of mpeg-2 Blu-Ray.

[lata]

Hi

Regarding the “Visual C++ message”

On the last page if you were to select “Create a Bluray Folder” and not “Create Disc” the process should complete saving the disc data to a BDMV folder on your hard drive.

If that completes ok then the error is probably related to the actual burning of the disc and your BD burner or Discs????

At least you will know that VS is completing the process