Project: add clips with different resolutions or scan types?

[djboshh]

Hi

Can i ask what the thinking is in regards to adding clips to a project that have different resolution or scans types to the main project & it's properties?

For example, suppose i'm making a project where most of my clips are 1920x1080 25i interlaced and with project properties set up to match, but i had a few clips from a mobile phone that are 1280x720p progressive, would i still be able to add them to the project? How would VideoStudio handle that? Would i have to adjust any values myself?

Same hypothetical question would apply the other way around too, i.e to a progressive project that contained a few interlaced clips too.

Many thanks.

[lata]

Hi

Yes you can add different videos together but run the risk of reducing the quality of some of the clips.

Both your samples use 16:9 ratio so the actual size should not be a problem.
Converting Interlaced to Progressive and visa versa may cause interlacing issues showing jagged edges on straight lines, (I say may?)

Your 720P may have a different frame rate, is it 25fps, it may well be 30fps?
Converting 30 to 25 fps removes 1 frame in 5, that’s quite a lot, again the quality may suffer depending on how much motion the video has.

What are you intending to create, you are using HD so are you intending to burn a Bluray disc, or a video for the internet.

You need to do a few render tests to see what produces the best quality.

[djboshh]

Hi Trevor

I got into video editing for the first time about 4 years ago when my first child was born, and I collect clips throughout the year and make a yearly movie with them each year.

I have already made the first 3 yearly movies with another editor. However this year’s movie will soon be made from 1920x1080 50p (m2ts), a format that my previous editor doesn’t officially render to (although you can get around it with a few unofficial tricks, but less than ideal). This is what led me to explore other editors before I started making this year’s movie. That’s how I came to try VideoStudio, and I’m loving it so much I wish I had discovered it 4 years ago.

The first 3 yearly movies are already made, and I don’t particularly want to go back and re-do them all again. The first one was made from mixed clips (because back then I didn’t realise the importance of shooting all the clips in the same format). That’s where my hypothetical question came from because I wanted to know how VideoStudio manages mixed clips and the correct procedure for dealing with them. This year’s movie will be made with VideoStudio & will be 1920x1080 50p, but I do have some mobile clips I want to include as well, which are 1280x720p and variable frame rate (although I could run them through ‘Handbrake’ first and re-save them as constant).

So, having gone through all the pain of figuring out how to do things properly in another editor, I want to learn proper procedure for VideoStudio too, as it’s the software I want to stick with using from now on.

So, some of the projects that I’d love to know how to make in VideoStudio are now only hypothetical, except the current one where I want to add a few mobile clips too.

So, yes my question was bought about because of all that.

A) Is it ok to add clips of different resolutions and/or scan types to a project?
B) Would i have to manually adjust any values myself? A hypothetical example could be: if I was adding an interlaced clip to a progressive project would I have to tell VideoStudio to de-interlace it. I suppose the exact opposite applies too, would I have to do anything if I wanted to add a progressive clip into an interlaced project, or are all things handled automatically?
C) Does VideoStudio automatically re-scale for you if the resolution is different, i.e. putting a 1280x720 clip into a 1920x1080 clip?

Obviously correct procedures differ from editor to editor.

Thanks again.

[Ken Berry]

You don't actually say which version of VS you are using. But things are somewhat easier with the current version (X7) in relation at least to some of your questions. X7 has updated a longstanding feature that previously mostly only worked with standard definition video, but now works with most high definition formats (though not all). In Preferences > General, there is a box 'Show message when inserting first video clip into the Timeline' which should be ticked. Then when you insert your first video clip into the VS timeline you should get a message box asking if you want the Project Properties to match those of the clip. Since most of your video will be 1920 x 1080 at 50p, make sure the first clip you insert is one of these, and accept the change in Project Properties to match those of the clip. That way, when you have finished editing, you can very simply go to Share and select 'Same As Project Properties' or even 'Same As First Clip' and have output matching exactly the properties of that video clip.

That answers your question B and C (Trevor has already answered A). With the above settings, your 1280 x 720p footage will automatically be up-sized to 1920 x 1080 in the final output. But even if you have an earlier version of VS or select another output format, regardless of what mixture of formats you have in a project, VS will automatically convert all video in the project to the properties of the final selected output.

This also answers another comment you made:

...but I do have some mobile clips I want to include as well, which are 1280x720p and variable frame rate (although I could run them through ‘Handbrake’ first and re-save them as constant).

There is no need to put them through Handbrake or any other converter program. Regardless of whether the video is originally constant or variable bitrate, the final output format selected in VS will govern what happens, so if you select an output format which uses CBR, then any VBR video in the project will be automatically converted to CBR. Similarly, there is no need to worry about the maximum bitrate of your clips if the final output is VBR. So if some your original video clips use a maximum bitrate of, say, 25 Mbps but the Project Properties (or First Clip properties) or selected output format uses, say, 18 Mbps, then everything in the final output will have a maximum bitrate of 18 Mbps. And vice versa -- if some of your clips use a lower bitrate than the Project Properties or output format, then their bitrate will be increased in the Share process to match those of the rest of the video -- though it should be noted that this will not increase their quality beyond what it was when using its original bitrate. (Clear as mud???!!! But essentially, bitrate governs quality. A higher bitrate generally means better quality. But as the old saying goes "you can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear". Thus a video originally shot using a lower bitrate cannot be made to look better in quality simply by increasing the bitrate.)

In any case, this is another of your hypotheticals, I think. You say your 1920 x 1080 video uses 50P. This would make it some form of AVCHD using the h.264 codec, and this in turn uses VBR. Similarly, your 1280 x 720P video is AVCHD and also uses VBR. So no need to convert from VBR to CBR in the first place!

[djboshh]

Hi Ken, thanks for taking the time to explain a few things to me.

Firstly, perhaps i should just point out that i wrote variable "frame rate" not variable "bit rate", easy to mis-read i know.

Yes, I've only just discovered VideoStudio, and so it will be the latest version X7 Pro.

So your advice boiled down is this:

With projects that contain mixed clips, make sure your project properties match those of the majority of your clips (VideoStudio can automatically do that if the first clip in the timeline is one of those clips (& the checkbox checked in the settings)), and to quote you: "regardless of what mixture of formats you have in a project, VS will automatically convert all video in the project to the properties of the final selected output". So this then means there's no values i would have to manually adjust myself.

Brilliant.

[Ken Berry]

Sorry about that frame rate mix-up -- though the same thing applies. If you insert variable *frame rate* video into a project with a different frame rate set in the Properties, then the latter frame rate would apply. In any case, as far as I am aware, Video Studio is not able to produce video using variable frame rates. In other words, if you happened to insert a first clip which uses, say, 23 fps instead of PAL's 25 fps, and VS accepted this as a valid Project Property, and you used this in Share > Same As Project Properties, then the whole output video would be 23 fps, which could look a little odd in parts...

With projects that contain mixed clips, make sure your project properties match those of the majority of your clips (VideoStudio can automatically do that if the first clip in the timeline is one of those clips (& the checkbox checked in the settings)

Yes.

So this then means there's no values i would have to manually adjust myself.

No... as long as the majority clips' Properties are what you want and the output pleases you. There will, however, come a time when you get a bit more experience, where you will want to experiment with -- or indeed have to resort to -- VS's Custom settings, where you would need to change all sorts of things: the output format itself, the frame rate, the bitrate, the audio format used... and even whether it was Progressive/Frame Based (P) or interlaced (I). But for the moment, VS will do it for you!!

[djboshh]

Great, much appreciated

[lata]

Hi

Just to add to…
Your first post mentions 25i I assume that to be 25fps interlaced. (aka50i) Then later you say 50P. (yep I know confusing)

HD 50P is not compatible to burn a Bluray Disc, nor is it compatible to burn a standard definition disc. The frame rate has to be 25 fps.


That begs the question “should we record to 50p if we intend to burn a disc”?

Converting 50p to 25fps will throw away half the frames, whether that impacts on quality?????

My last holiday was shot in 50P with the intent in checking the quality, I will be burning Bluray. Still to edit that footage.

[djboshh]

Hi Trevor

Yes you make a very good point.

Firstly, i was going to shoot in 25p (pretty much standard in this part of the world (UK)). However, curiosity got the better of me and i did some test shots with 50p and was absolutely blown away by the difference in quality inc motion. Therefore it became without question my chosen format for my new movie.

Yes, the primary viewing apparatus i would view the finished movie on would be on my PC and it's progressive monitor, so no problems there. Obviously 50p is ideal. However, i would want to send copies of the movie to the mother and mother in law too, lol. They only have DVD players. So i would have to make DVD versions too. I assume making DVD's from 50p footage is 'dooable'?

I have a Blu-ray player attached to my HD TV too. I'm aware that 50p is not a Blu-ray disc standard and that it wont/cant play 50p blu-ray disc as there's no such thing. However, it does play standalone video files too, and so I'll have to test whether it can play a standalone 50p video file. If not then i'd be relying on VideoStudio being able to convert the 50p footage into a 25i/50i disc when burning a standard Blu-ray disc. If it can't then i'm not too bothered, as I'll happily wait for Blu-rays to be superceded, and play the 50p movie on whatever comes along next.

Paul

[lata]

Hi Paul

Should be no problems in converting 50P to 25fps for bluray discs.
As I say I will be checking that out when I get around to editing my latest footage.
Like you I may record to 50P then downscale where required.

However I did have quality issues in converting AVCHD to Standard Mpeg2 DVD to such an extent that using another video converter was required, I guess the quality issue depended on the video content and amount of panning.

Saving the MTS files to memory stick USB should play on your players/tv, if you have an issue playing some files try renaming from MTS (M2TS) to use MPG file extension. I too have to test out 50P USB playback?

[djboshh]

Hi Trevor

Thanks for the advice (again), noted!

The only downside to discovering 50p is that before it i was quite happy with the quality of 25p, but now when i watch the 25p movies, i just think to myself "no-where near as good as 50p", lol

[Ken Berry]

Just to stir the pot again (!!!), I hate to tell you that there is in fact one 50P format which *is* compatible with the international Blu-Ray standard, and guess what, you probably have it too!! And its 1280 x 720P!!!! In fact, before 1920 x 1080 really appeared, it was the international high definition standard, particularly for high def TV, and still is in some parts of the world... As I sort of suggested above, you are sometime (soon???) going to have to learn to broaden your horizons. But for the moment, if you play your edited video on your computer or on your HDTV, I suspect you will find that 1920 x 1080 at 50P will still be the ideal... until you are bitten by the 4K bug!!! For what it's worth, I do most of my video -- nearly always high def these days in one form or another -- for playback on my HDTV via my PlayStation 3 (in fact two of them on two different HDTVs). The PS3 is an excellent Blu-Ray player among a variety of other things, and happily plays my HDV, AVCHD and other high def videos, and plays them whether 50P (AVCHD and mp4) or 25P/50i (HDV)....

But the bottom of the line message is, play around. You will still be pretty astounded... though I have to agree with Trevor that when you down-convert to standard definition, the results often leave a lot to be desired...

[lata]

Hi Ken

Yep forgot about the 720P option.

By the way have you ever burned a Bluray disc using 1280 x 720 x 50p

I did try the last time the subject was raised yet VS simply converted it to 1920 x 1080 x 25

I would have to run that through the mill again to see what actually happens, maybe burning a BD folder?

[djboshh]

Ken, thanks for the advice about the play station 3, and also the 1280 x 720P 50 fps being a Blu-ray standard – worth knowing.

Also:

Doing some research I found the allowed blu-ray disc resolutions are:

Resolution Frame rate[a] Aspect ratio

1920×1080 30i (29.97i) 16:9
1920×1080 25i 16:9
1920×1080 24p 16:9
1920×1080 23.976p 16:9
1440×1080 30i (29.97i) 4:3
1440×1080 25i 4:3
1440×1080 24p 4:3
1280×720 60p (59.94p) 16:9
1280×720 50p 16:9
1280×720 24p 16:9
720×480 30i (29.97i) 4:3 or 16:9
720×576 25i 4:3 or 16:9

I’m happy for now mainly viewing a 50p movie just on the PC and to see what comes along in the future (or possibly viewing them now via a PlayStation if I had one), but of course it would be nice to have the option of making a Blu-ray too (or DVD for the mother and mother in law).

I won’t pretend to be too clued up about it all, but this is what I imagined if I wanted to make a standard Blu-ray disc from 1920x1080 50p footage:

The aim would be for a Blu-ray disc with a resolution of 1920x1080 25i.

Firstly, 25i is still 50fps but 50 half frames. Is that right?

If so then shooting in 1920x1080 50p is ok because it’s easy to convert from 50p to 25i (which is still 50 fps (all be it half frames)). So it would be easy for an editor to use the 50p footage to make a standard 25i interlaced disc, because it already has 50 frames per second to sample from and all the information it needs. So surely you end up with more or less what you would have had anyway had you shot in 25 frames interlaced, is that right?

I haven’t tried making a DVD disc with it yet, but by the sounds of it, you’re saying it doesn’t render too well. Mother in law will be pleased, lol

[lata]

Hi Paul
Oh it can be so confusing
There is Interlaced and Frame Based (Progressive) video

Pal standard Frame Based has 25 fps, these are full frames.25p
Interlacing splits the frames in half creating a Lower and Upper fields. 25 frames or 50 half frames 50i. the terminology confused me when they introduced 50i, would be better to say 25fps, if the description contains a “p” then its progressive if not its interlaced.

HD video uses Upper Field first, that order has to be kept the same, changing to Lower Field first and you will see jagged edges. You should not have a problem there, just be aware to check the original video properties.

One minute of video 50p has 3000 frames (50 x 60)
One minute of video 25fps has 1500 frames (25 x 60)

When you finally convert the video to burn a BD you loose half the video frames, now I don’t know if that quality is the same or worse then recording to 25fps.
That’s the position I am in at the moment, editing 50P to convert to 25fps then compare that with my earlier 25fps recordings.

When you burn your first DVD choose to create a Disc Image, that will save creating those coasters.
Then play the Disc Image Iso file using VCL Player, if its ok burn the iso to disc using Tools Burn from Disc Image.

For BD Create a Bluray Folder, you need a Bluray player software to play this including menu, then use ImgBurn, a free program to burn the file to disc.

Hybrid disc
You can burn Avchd files to standard DVD discs, about 30 minutes per disc.

Hope that does not confuse the issues.

PS copy one of your 50P recordings to USB stick and see if it plays on the TV/BD Player, then convert to 25fps, that should play.