Athentech noise reduction introduces artefacts

[rainer042]

Hello,

just purchased the new AftershotPro2 after using bibble since bibble4 and later bibble5 and then AFSP1 always benefitting of Noise Ninja registered technology. What I did not see before spending my money was that Noise Ninja (NN) is no longer available. So well I tried the Athentech solution but it does a rather bad job compared to NN, actually in some photos it does not really reduce noise but introduces new artefacts.

Here is one examples photo with different noise reductions applied. First a small part of this photo showing blue sky that has a little chroma noise without any noise reduction activated:

Next the Photo with Athentechs noise reduction applied. The reduction level was set to 30, detail to 5 (other settings of detail do not significantly change the result):

dsc_1441_v2-ath-30-5-small.jpg (7.99 KiB) Viewed 9299 times

And last but not least the (registered) noise ninja noise reduction in AfterShotPro1, same photo same basic settings. The NN level for luminance was set to a value of 2, for Chroma a value of 10:

dsc_1441_v2-noiseninja-small.jpg (7.71 KiB) Viewed 9299 times

The Athentech result looks "dirty", with artefacts added visible as bigger dark spots. You can increase the noise reduction level to say a value of 70 resolving this problem mostly but then you loose a lot of detail in the rest of the photo. NoiseNinja does a much better job! Actually in this case I find the noise in the original photo less disturbing than the result of the Athentech plugin!

So really I want my Noise Ninja back! The Athentech solution is not suited for good noise reduction. At the moment allthough I purchased AFSP2 I will stick with AFSP1 because of the rather bad noise reduction in AFSP2.

So Corel: What about plans to add a plugin that would allow at least NN registered users to use NN again or another better solution?

By the way if corel wants to analyse this problem I have no problem to send the photo with AFSP2 xmp file to someone.

I also would have liked to report this problem to corel support, but I was unable to register the AFSP2 product since the serial number format changed and thus was not accepted on corels register web page. Now a corel employee registered it for me but I still cannot open a support case since I did not receive a "support code" that according to corel is automatically sent when registering the new product. You need this code to open a support case. Sad.

Thanks
Rainer

[Hobgoblin]

<snip>

So Corel: What about plans to add a plugin that would allow at least NN registered users to use NN again or another better solution?

<snip>

Thanks
Rainer

Perhaps they had that in mind at some time.
You may have noticed that they have shipped the NN libs in the distribution.

R.

[lathspell]

I discovered the same (and even worse) with the new PC Noise Removal - see http://forum.corel.com/EN/viewtopic.php?f=94&t=53631 ...

[rainer042]

Hi,

perhaps someone from corel will read about the problems described here and the other thread and hopefully will start analysing this problem.

However I think it would be even better if someone who is entitled to start a support request would create one describing the problem and perhaps pointing to this thread. I would like to do this myself, however as I already described allthough I purchased ASP2 I did not receive the mail promised by corel containing a support code that is needed to start a support request. One should get this support code after registering the product as described on the support web pages of corel.

Is there anyone able and willing to contact corel support to tell them about this problem? I thing this way would be the best in order to solve the problem.

Thanks
Rainer

[BrianCee]

If you read this topic rainer042 :-

http://forum.corel.com/EN/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=53601


You will see that you have the options to contact Greg Wood the product manager direct for free - either by posting in that topic, or by sending him a private message - or by e-mailing him, no need to expect someone else to do it.

[afx]

So Corel: What about plans to add a plugin that would allow at least NN registered users to use NN again

Fat chance as long as PictureCode does not want to license it...

Try Wavelet Denoise. In many cases I found the results better than NN.

cheers
afx

[rainer042]

If you read this topic rainer042 :-

http://forum.corel.com/EN/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=53601


You will see that you have the options to contact Greg Wood the product manager direct for free - either by posting in that topic, or by sending him a private message - or by e-mailing him, no need to expect someone else to do it.

Thanks for the hints. I did. lets see if there is an answer and hopefuully a solution later on...

Rainer

[rainer042]

So Corel: What about plans to add a plugin that would allow at least NN registered users to use NN again

Fat chance as long as PictureCode does not want to license it...

Try Wavelet Denoise. In many cases I found the results better than NN.

cheers
afx

Hi,

Thanks fo the hint I will give it a try. Have not been using it up to now.

Have a nice day
Rainer

[rainer042]

Just downloaded wavlet denoise:
WaveletDenoise_ALL_T31.afzplug

I installed it in ASP2, everything seemd ok, no errors. After a restart however there is no new denoise plugin in the right sidetab under "Plugins1" neither anywhere else I searched.

I am using the 64bit linux version. Anyone else successful using any plugin in ASP2? I recently also tried zPerspector I am using in ASP1, but no success with ASP2. Installation works fine, but it does not show up.

Do I miss something?

Thanks
Rainer

[afx]

I installed it in ASP2, everything seemd ok, no errors. After a restart however there is no new denoise plugin in the right sidetab under "Plugins1" neither anywhere else I searched.

I am using the 64bit linux version. Anyone else successful using any plugin in ASP2?

What makes you think the plugin would work in 64bit?

The plugin website has not been updated yet to hold the 64bt plugin compiles.
See also: http://forum.corel.com/EN/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=53597

cheers
afx

[rainer042]

Hi,

thanks for the hint. Well I actually did not think about the architecture problem at all in this moment. Probably simply because the installation of the plugin worked. If there had been a warning about different architectures I probably would have known what was going on, but since I received a "plugin installed successfully" I simply thought, the installation worked why does the plugin not appear?

In between I switched to the 32bit version of ASp2 and also installed wavlet denoise. Its doing a really good job, as you already said sometimes better than Noise Ninja. Nevertheless I would welcome a return of the Ninja simply because (1) I have older raws where I used NN and if I ever want to change something there I would not even see if I ever had activated Noise Reduction for such a photo using ASP2. So its simply more work for photos processed with ASP1 without NN. And besides (2), its always good to have two different but powerful tools (I would not want to include Athentechs Noise Solution here) for the same job, sometimes one may do a better job than the other one.

Thanks
Rainer

[mikkokan]

I also see this bug.

Here's one example. It's 100% crop of 21mpix EOS 5D mkII file.

The picture is a little out of focus but look at line between nose and mouth in ASP2 photo. The Noise setting was "default" 60 and 10 in ASP2 and in ASP1 I used NN at 6.

Back to ASP1, waiting for serious bug fixes... Tried to contact Corels warranty support but I dont have 9 digits code, never got it.

ASP1. A lot sharper image.



ASP2. Blur image with this line under nose.

[rarechiga]

This is definitely a real bug since I have also experienced it on windows. I have also experienced many program crashes. It hangs using up my 8 gigs of memory and freezes my computer. I have already contacted Corel via their support system. I also did not receive my 9 digit support account so I called and they were very prompt. Call them and let them know you did not receive your 9 digit support number.

[afx]

Nevertheless I would welcome a return of the Ninja

That will never happen.
Picturecode does not want to renew the contract. Nothing Corel can do about it.

cheers
afx

[rainer042]

Nevertheless I would welcome a return of the Ninja

That will never happen.
Picturecode does not want to renew the contract. Nothing Corel can do about it.

cheers
afx

A company wants and has to make profit. So I don't think that this was an "all or nothing" decision. Probably it was a Corel-cost Picturecode-revenue decision.

If this assumption is true (only Corel or Picturecode can tell) than there would still be an option to offer a non free plugin the user who wants NN has to pay for if he wants to use it. This could generate direct revenue for Picturecode. Why should Picturecode deny take this money?

Corel could on the other hand think about removing the Athentech anti noise solution, because it does not really work and the free wavelet anti noise works so much better anyway. So Corel could save licensing costs otherwise payed to Athentech. As a result Corel could then lower prices for ASP2 making it more attractive for users.

Have a nice day
Rainer