What I’ve learned in the first 24 hours of ASP2

[R Frydryck]

While I created a post a week ago "Aftershot Pro 2: Too little too late?", this thread seems a little more applicable for some final thoughts. I had so much to say, but massively scaled it back to just a few points.
Obviously Corel is more interested in a fast cash grab than a true update, and easily seen by such a feature poor V2 after such a long wait. Image Problems, Weak Upgrade, Lack of Plugins, Degradation of Noise Reduction, Very Pricey Upgrade (for basically the same program), and the list goes on. There are some positives about ASP2, but I am sorry to say the negatives far outweigh them.

I was about to buy ASP2 on its release day, as I a really needed to upgrade all my software. I would have done so if the upgrade price was not so high, which let me look at its competitors. Some of which I didn't even know existed. I really hope the best for ASP2 as I have a soft spot for it. But I think ASP2 needs a full make over from the ground up, with it's prime directive on image quality. More importantly Corel need to start to listen and really respond to its user base.

[-cr]

I hope ultimately our efforts will convince you the upgrade price is worth it!

Hi Greg,

it's good to see you back here, and working on more improvements to ASP!

Maybe I'm the only one here, but *I* don't consider ASPs upgrade price outrageous - except when compared to its full price maybe, which I consider rather low. It must suck having to compete with Adobe. Your most obvious advantage over their product is Linux support - which unfortunately means a much smaller loyal crowd than with Windows.

Myself, I'll upgrade to ASP2 when I feel the advantages (yet-to-be-bought new camera supported, better/easier image editing, ...) outweigh the disadvantages (GradFilter missing, NoiseNinja incompatibility (older edits in the catalogs/*.xmp), upgrade price, ...). GPU support in image processing is nothing to win *me* over with; support of "slower" CPUs and smaller screens (away-from-home editing on my lightweight notebook) is - one thing that has always worked great with Bibble/ASP1, btw.

Looking forward to see you and your team succeed with ASP2.x - and onwards!
-Chris

[mbellot]

I hope ultimately our efforts will convince you the upgrade price is worth it!

Maybe I'm the only one here, but *I* don't consider ASPs upgrade price outrageous - except when compared to its full price maybe, which I consider rather low. It must *** having to compete with Adobe. Your most obvious advantage over their product is Linux support - which unfortunately means a much smaller loyal crowd than with Windows.

I consider the upgrade price outrageous simply because there are virtually no new features and few bug fixes. Would you have paid $60 to go from V1 to V1.1?

I really like ASP, but they make it very hard to support their meager efforts. Corel has fallen short with this so-called upgrade. The workflow and keeping DAM totally optional are the two big things that keep ASP my main tool.

[R Frydryck]

Maybe I'm the only one here, but *I* don't consider ASPs upgrade price outrageous -
*snip*
Myself, I'll upgrade to ASP2 when I feel the advantages (yet-to-be-bought new camera supported, better/easier image editing, ...) outweigh the disadvantages

@ -cr
I think you misread most of the complaints about the upgrade price. Many here are saying that the price is too high for the very little improvement/advancement of ASP2 (which later you seem to agree with). In some cases ASP2 now even performs worst, for example it's noise reduction. Also most everyone is worried that APR2 will simply disappear again like they did before. Which is actually a real possibility. The new GW has a lot of positives in his posting here, but it is over shadowed with vague promises for improvements. What he needs to do is state hard facts, real dates, and a long list of improvements that will get done. Period.
I also see that you are not intending to buy ASP2 in the future, and wondering if you mind changes when you are ready.

What Corel NEEDED to do with this weak roll out, was have a super sale to revive the base, and lay out a plan for the future with real goals and dates. I am still looking at ASP2 but time is running out, as ACDsee has a super sale of only $79.95 till June 12th. Lightroom 5 for $120 on Amazon is not out of the running too. I am still in the the process of testing and researching, but both (especially ACDsee) have so many more features, and a solid track record for updates.

[df]

The upgrade price isn't outrageous, but version 2 does anything for me that version 1 doesn't. It version 2 met my needs I'd pay the upgrade price and more.

[mbellot]

The upgrade price isn't outrageous, but version 2 does anything for me that version 1 doesn't. It version 2 met my needs I'd pay the upgrade price and more.

This is precisely why the upgrade price is outrageous. Version 2 is nothing more than Version 1 with a minor facelift and a much less effective NR technology.

[ferdinand-paris]

The issue for me is not the absolute price, but the small gap between the advertised upgrade price, $60, and the new price, $80. This suggests that there is a lot new in the program, and personally I can't see it.

[EowynCarter]

I just saw about Aftershot 2.

And i'm seriously disappointed.
It's slow, and crashed on a me a few times... I'm not sure what the hell is going on. Might be because of accessing the photo though the network, but aftershot 1 have no problem

Using ubuntu 14.04, 64 bits, and after shot 64 as well. Any clues ?

[ex1500]

I purchased ASP some 9 months ago based on Corel's promises for support and future updates (some may remember the promised Noise Ninja replacement). Two months later I bought a Canon 70D and could no longer use ASP. Corel's support turned out useless and updates were never released. There is no way I will pay 50 euros for an upgrade that should have been free in the first place!
I can appreciate that this is considered a new product, but in my opinion this just doesn't sound right within only a few months of usage. Sorry Greg, but I think Corel has just lost a loyal customer for both ASP and PSP products.

[acmh]

New AfterShot Pro

As for me - linux user buying all the uprgades from B4

- long been delighted to have quality, fast raw decoding on Linux
- since b5 been frustrated with total lack of camera updates
- forced to look elsewhere

I was lucky since the Nikon D800 got support. But the colors produced by ASP1 are much worse compared to the original JPG (same as with the D200 and bibble4/5/ASP1). And although I'm a Linux user I now use Nikons Capture NX-D on a Notebook if I need perfect colors (beta, but free, and will stay free). Only for black and white I still use ASP1 because of its plugins (licensed Nostalgia, BEZ, Wavelet Sharpen, ...) and the layer feature.

So now I am finding that I am:
- amazed to use software where camera updates come quickly - (Darktable)
- I can add new cameras, tweek colour and noise profiles and recompile in minutes (Darktable)
- Amazed that there is a lively discusion with the core developers and a desire to get feedback _and_ patches from users (Darktable)
- Finding a reusable/shared masks system for local editing of virtual any function incredible for tweakign an image (Darktable)
- Regular releases with bug fixes and features (Darktable)
- Source repo available so I can track the development branch as much or as little as I want (Darktable)
- Long term security - open source means if the currently developers lose interest it can be forked by anyone to carry on (Darktable)
- Finding all this for zero cost... (Darktable)
- Finding the above priceless.... (Darktable)

This is a long list of very strong points for Darktable and against ASP. Still I would like to use ASP because it is fast, the UI is OK for me, and it is multi platform, which is a strong point for me, since I don't want to bind my work flow to a specific platform.

Conversely I've now been offered a _MASSIVE_ 10% discount on a facelift of software that was already way behind, and still is. With eager promises of a change in customer relationship... that we've heard before.
I've spent too much on Bib^h^hASPx already. B5 was probably worth the upgrade fee. ASP was very disappointing and the lack of updates killed it.

Unfortunately this is all true. I think that Corels's try to renew the communication to its customers comes too late to let ASP survive its competitors, regardless of the platform. Image quality problems known for years (color rendering, highlight recovery, fill light) must be fixed ASAP, and camera support should be updated each time a new camera is introduced into the market. Speed is not the killer criterion, because new hardware can also speed up a slow work flow.

[pgman]

Whenever you start working on a new product or a new project, you learn a ton. That’s certainly been the case with AfterShot Pro. When I started working on AfterShot earlier this year, the first thing I learned was how awesome it is. I quickly came to love it, especially in terms of how fast I can get my photos looking the way I want.

...

Greg

I'd like to make a suggestion to built both "user love" and "good words". Release every month on the 1st or the 1st Monday or... a new release. That's 12 releases per year.

Most of the times, these are small releases like a few bug fixes and maybe one or two new cameras support. And occasionally some bigger changes...

BTW, I "really, really, really" want Fujifilm X-Trans support.

Thanks

Syv

[stefanve]

BTW, I "really, really, really" want Fujifilm X-Trans support.

I second that, in fact it would be the reason to upgrade for me.

[sarunas]

Hello.

I have been using Bibble and ASP for years, mostly with RAW files from Olympus 4/3 and lately from m4/3 and some from Panasonic m4/3. All on Linux/KDE, and availability for Linux was one of the important reasons to start with Bibble. I tried several times to switch to other OSes (in order to be able to use Lightroom), but coudn't live with the deficiencies of the two other popular OSes. The last couple of years weren't the most exciting for Bibble/ASP users, so the ASP pop-up window on version 2 was a refreshment. I downloaded both 32- and 64-bit trial versions and made two separate copies of directories with 20 ORF files previously processed with ASP 1.2 and containing two XMP files for each ORF. Opening the new version, the interface though stylistically a bit different, looked familiar, though why out of a sudden would it use Windows-style application window decorations is beyond me.

Checking the RAW adjustments made in 1.2, version 2 seems to recognise crop, rotation, levels (may need more subtle checking), exposure, saturation etc., keywords. A 32-bit version preserves also perspective correction, but the 64-bit version doesn't have a plugin version, so perspective adjustments are lost.

Noise reduction settings are lost in both versions, but there is no NN plugin anymore. However the loss of settings (not even a warning!) from the newly overwritten XMP files is unacceptable — they should at least have been converted to whatever noise removal system there is by default.

The color management system doesn't seem to have been improved. Still no support for CMYK software proofing (used to be available in Bibble years ago!)

There was some reordering/renaming in lens profiles. Little use for those like myself who have crafted their own profiles from Hugin or data from lensfun database.

RAW processing speed comparison. The same 20 ORF files were processed in v1.2, v2.0.2 32-bit and v2.0.2 64-bit. Processing took respectively 45s, 51s and 34s. There seems to be a nice improvement in the truly 64-bit version. My simplistic test however is in no way conclusive. I did not see any improvement from enabling OpenCL (AMD Turks card).

All in all I don't think the change from v1.2 merits a jump to v2.

A *version* upgrade should mean something substantial. For example, proper color management including CMYK; lens correction done from the data embedded in RAW files (Olympus, Panasonic, other?) not from the questionable empirical profiles; full compatibility and use (or at least preservation, until 64-bit plugins are available) of adjustment data in XMP from earlier versions; actual use of hardware acceleration, not just a checkbox in Preferences.

[Amamba]

I came to this forum to check something regarding PSP X4, which I do use and still like a lot. ASP to me is a niche (Linux) product with a smell of abandonware.

I've used ASP, then Ligthroom, and now PhotoNinja + Ligthroom.

Sorry to say that ASP is way, way behind in what I can achieve with PN or PN+LR. When it comes to color fidelity, noise removal, clarity, lens and camera support, ASP is simply not there.

The ASP2 upgrade price is indeed ridiculous. So I won't even try it.

It had some major potential but IMHO it was wasted. Sorry.

[-cr]

Here’s the top 5 things I took away from Day 1 of AfterShot Pro 2. [...]

I still have to say to that: well recognized!

Now here's what *I* have learned in my first 24 hours of ASP2 (which included about 2h net of fiddling around with the program):

It works, about as well as ASP1.

Improvements? Hmm... OK, "local contrast" is nice. Anything else? I haven't really noticed.
I have to admit, though, that I've been using the 32bit version (Linux) only, for lack of 64bit versions of the plugins (a few of which I consider essential!).

While I don't like the fact that I cannot (safely) use ASP2 to go back to my ASP1 edits that used NoiseNinja, I have to say that the new PerfectlyClear noise removal seems to work well enough for me. Well done, Corel!

I'm glad that the old plugins still seem to work (in the 32bit version of ASP2).

The user interface changes, I don't mind - or care about. ...except for a few quirks that hinder my work in ASP2:

I'm using flags (pick / reject) a lot. With the changed UI, I find them very hard to see in the thumbnails! (Color labels and star ratings are still OK, though.)

ASP2 does some funny resizing every now and then (when changing images, or when double clicking to change between 1:1 and "fit" mode, and even when resetting my edit via ctrl-R?), with the image being scaled so that it almost fits into the panel, but not quite. It seemed to be even worse when I turned on "maintain zoom when switching images" in the preferences, which I usually have enabled.

Why did Corel decide to take the helpful green-to-magenta coloring away from the white balance tint slider?!
(Since white balance presets for my main camera (Oly E-M5) seem to be as wrong as in ASP1, I use manual wb adjustments a lot.)

Overall, I don't see much improvement in ASP2 over ASP1. For my use, "Local contrast" does not outweigh the UI quirks described above.
The 64bit version might show some noticeable speed improvements, but without (some of) the plugins ...
If a had a new(er) camera that's only supported in ASP2 ...

Why did I take so long to check ASP2 out? NN incompatibility, and low expectations regarding improvements, all for a 50€ upgrade fee.
Why have I upgraded now? Curiosity, and a reduced 25€ upgrade fee that might just help to keep ASP alive.

Do I consider ASP2 to be a full version update of ASP1? Maybe if I could run it(s plugins) in 64bit, and could use the new HDR functionality on linux.

Will I start recommending ASP2 to other photographers, as I used to do with Bibble? I'm still not confident that ASP will receive the support/updates it needs in the future. Sorry, Corel, you took too long to get into gear. ...but maybe now you're on track, and ASP2 is here to stay? Time will have to tell.

Oh, and btw: So far, I've installed ASP2 on my travel laptop only. I'm not sure, yet, that I can get used to the above mentioned UI quirks. Only then will I start using ASP2 on my main computer.