VSX7 time-lapse video mp4 quality issues

[aljimenez]

Would you explain why you must have mp4 format? Time lapse is very different than what mp4 is designed for; mp4 expects nearby frames to not change very much for large periods of time while time lapse has significant changes between frames. If you have Lightroom, use it to create your time lapses. Another idea is to use mjpeg as the file format... Al

[lata]

Hi the_hefay

I have done a few tests rendering time-lapse images to a variety of formats with no problems.

I had 84 images from an earlier shoot, I cannot remember the pause duration between shots, I was testing the shutter release timer rather than the finished effect.
But as you mentioned the cameras settings is not the issue but the final renders.

Using Video Studio each image was set to 2 frames this gave a final duration of 6 seconds 17 frames.
A little jerky but is inherent for time-lapse video, could be reduced by setting 1 frame for each image.

I was able to render to WMV, Mpeg4, and MT: DV-Avi and Mpeg2 reduced the quality to standard definition but still looked ok, I was careful to use Frame Based (Progressive) for my interlacing option.
All options played with the same quality, so I don’t understand why you are seeing poor quality when using Mpeg4.

Can you try disabling Smart Render to see if that makes any difference to the final video?

[Troy at TheGTAMblog]

If I may pop in here, it seems that unfortunately, VSPx7's implementation of the MPEG-4/h.264/AVC codec leaves much to be desired. To my eyes, it compresses a lot with only some optimization features 'on'. AVC could do a lot better than what VSP does with it and the only reason I can think of them disabling so many compression assisting features of the codec (ones that maintain Quality) is speed.

If almost everything that h264/AVC could do was turned on/enabled, it would take hours and hours on end for a short clip in HD to render out, with things like Partitions, Motion Estimation, Subpixel Motion Estimation, Rate Factoring, Deblocking, Variable Buffering, Quarter Pixel Analysis, Bi-directional Frames and many, many more compression capabilities that AVC offers. With [what seems like] most of these quality-enhancing analysis steps of compression disabled, rendering doesn't take too long and the end user doesn't get disillusioned or despondent.

As a result of this, video is coming out far too 'smoothed out' and detail is being lost, due to the restrictions of the codec. I realize some restrictions are on purpose, so that a render can be played on mobile devices or stand-alone players that are less capable than a full desktop system (or even a laptop notebook); but still, many of the choices they seem to have made in MPEG-4/AVC quality settings are sacrificing too much quality.

One suggestion is to pick a codec that has more frequent I-frames (Information Frames or Key Frames), perhaps even one where you an set your own frequency of keyframes. That way, you get more of them more often, especially when working with still images to create a video - then your images will look a lot crisper. It is unfortunate that the Ulead codec presets that I see don't allow adjustments of the keyframe interval and other similar settings... It would be nice to see something like this, even hidden under an 'Advanced' button somewhere...

Another suggestion would be to do a pre-render of a completed project out to some intermediary format (such as WMV, which does not utilize Deblocking and other compression techniques that 'smooth out' higher-compressed areas of the video) at a very high bitrate, then do your 'final' render with another program that lets you adjust the AVC/MP4 settings you want to use (or sacrifice), on your own terms (if you wish to final in MP4).

[the_hefay]

Okay, I'm back. My wifi bridge went down and in the meantime I decide to build myself a new computer. The only reason I'm interested in the mp4 format is for upload to sites like facebook and vimeo. I know very little about using different codecs. How would I go about picking a better one? Do I need to download it, or do you mean to use something different that is already in VSX7 somewhere? What would be a good codec to use?

[lata]

Hi the_hefay

Canuck asked in an earlier reply that you provide a Smart Package of the problem project, that would include all clips used in the project. Upload to a sharing site.
We can then render to various formats using your files.

I have run my own test using my own files and do not have a quality problem.
However beauty is in the eye of the beholder, you may be more critical of the video. But your original post does indicate the quality is bad?

The weather today is quite poor, not suitable for time lapsing the cloud movements otherwise I would run another test.

Video Formats, I do not have a problem using Mpeg4, but any other HD format would / should produce good video, file sizes may vary.
You should use Frame Based aka Progressive.

The sample library video SP-V01.mp4 is quite good quality copy those properties to create your video

MPEG-4 Files
24 bits, 1920 x 1080, 25 fps (for Pal)
Frame-based
H.264 High Profile Video: 15000 Kbps, 16:9
48000 Hz, 16 Bit, Stereo
MPEG AAC Audio: 256 Kbps

[the_hefay]

working on that smart package right now.

[the_hefay]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0lm0qyxp2r46c ... ackage.zip

Here's the dropbox link to my smart package.

[canuck]

Just ran your SmartPackage project and I find no quality problems after rendering. I tried the other HD formats you mentioned and all are pretty equal in quality.

[lata]

Hi

Like Canuck I have also rendered the project and get acceptable/good quality.
I did increase the clip duration to 2 frames, that increased the length but quality was just as good. I tried both 29fps and 25fps as I use Pal

I did notice the project properties using MT interlaced, don’t think that is an issue if you render to Mpeg4 and not Same as Project Properties, even so should look good.

The final video is only a few MB’s, are you able to create a longer Mpeg4 file and upload to the drop box, at least we will see the quality you are creating?

[the_hefay]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/naf5tjip6d65b ... ackage.mp4

here's the mp4 file I made from the smart package.

[the_hefay]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xnloe375h8wys ... age_05.wmv

Here's the wmv file from the smart package.

[canuck]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/naf5tjip6d65b ... ackage.mp4

here's the mp4 file I made from the smart package.

THat is exactly what I get from your smart package and looks perfectly fine. Where do you see a problem?

[Sonic Fields]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/naf5tjip6d65b ... ackage.mp4

here's the mp4 file I made from the smart package.

THat is exactly what I get from your smart package and looks perfectly fine. Where do you see a problem?

Now this does puzzle me a bit, as what I'm seeing must be very different to what you're seeing. To be honest with you "the_hefay" has a lot to be concerned about; the smart package video is terrible, it's extremely pixelated/blocky and wades in at about the equivalent of a 360p.

[canuck]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/naf5tjip6d65b ... ackage.mp4

here's the mp4 file I made from the smart package.

THat is exactly what I get from your smart package and looks perfectly fine. Where do you see a problem?

Now this does puzzle me a bit, as what I'm seeing must be very different to what you're seeing. To be honest with you "the_hefay" has a lot to be concerned about; the smart package video is terrible, it's extremely pixelated/blocky and wades in at about the equivalent of a 360p.

As I said I don't see any problem with "the-Hefay"s video - there is no pixelation or blockiness.

[Sonic Fields]

Now got time for a longer response!

I was interested in this post not particularly for time lapse videos, but for the quality aspect of rendered videos. Many hours were spent trying to get decent renders both on my own HD monitor and for submission of full HD (1080p) for Vimeo; I found none of the MPEG-2, MPEG-4, H.264 VSX7 renders were suitable, pixilation and blocky areas were visible especially in similar contrast/colour background areas, which from a quality point of view is poor. The only solution I found was to disregard all the fancy render format/codec names and just concentrate on the bitrates: unless that rate is high enough for the video quality required, then the video will never be as expected.
After much rendering and sample uploading, the only way that I could produce a good enough quality video without any signs of the pixilation to be classified as full HD (1080p) from my VSX7 project which included a mixture of photos (jpegs & tiffs) and .mov shots was to render as an uncompressed .mov file (customised AVI) in VSX7, followed by a conversion with a similar .mov file format, but having encoder options suitable for 1080p, using 'Prism Video Converter' having an average bitrate of 50,000kbs and maximum of 50,000kbs; unfortunately the only audio compressor available in that software was AAC 320kbps.

OK, so we are dealing with large files here with the VSX7 render for a 2:46 min video coming out at 23.1GB, with the final conversion in 'Prism' reducing it down to 823MB, but the point I'm making is, if you need a quality video, then expect large files; you cannot get away with using low bitrates and high compression!

This is the clip which I did using this method - nothing else worked in VSX7 to give that quality!