X7 Ultimate audio pops with overlay crossfades

[cdoughertycd]

Hi: I'm encountering audio pops at overlay crossfades with newly purchased X7 Ultimate. I really like the ability to do overlay crossfades but the audio pops and clicks are heard at the beginning and sometimes the end of the crossfade even though I have split out the audio from the video and have the video and the overlay muted. I have not rendered this project yet, still working on it. Do you think the pops might go away with the render or this is still a bug? I have tried dragging the muted audio line down to inaudible in the overlay at the cross but it still happens.

thanks for any help or ideas.

Candy

[RobertOZ]

Sorry Candy, cannot replicate your issue, Using the crossfade transitions, or any other overlay transition, on the overlay tracks does not produce any audio pops in the main video track, I only muted the overlay tracks and the audio plays fine through the overlay transition.
What audio format are you using

Robert

[cdoughertycd]

Robert turns out I had split out the audio after I had included crossfades so there were some pops at some fades, not all. I figured out to split out the audio before I do crosses with overlay tract (a no brainer). I'm not going to spend more time figuring why the pops now that I know when to split out the audio. I did see the issue described on a youtube tutorial about how to do crossfades manually.

X7 Ultimate is now great for crossfades but I'm running into some issues. I discovered when saving an X7 project as X6, X6 defaults overlay crossfades to fade to black unless I manually do them which means cutting small section of video and overlaying it on the overlay as a crossfade not fade to black, time consuming but works.

Reason I'm having to save this current X7 project as X6 is when rendering my project shot in HD and compressing long project of 90 min down to fit on standard DVD, the quality suffers, so I am having to go back to X6 which gives better quality in this process, grr, and I just bought X7.

Thanks for your reply and I'd be interested in knowing if you've had problems rendering an HD project compressed as MPEG-2 and getting not good enough quality in X7 for DVD burn. I should probably start another thread on that. Project is too long to render it to anything else.

Candy

[canuck]

Quality will suffer when you go from HD to standard DVD even when using X6 and it will suffer even more when you compress the 90 minute video to fit the DVD. A standard DVD can only hold 60 minutes of video at "best" quality, any longer and the video has to be compressed as was explained in an earlier post.

I don't understand what you mean by this comment "Project is too long to render it to anything else"

Are you still doing an intermediate conversion to a wmv or mp4 format?

[Ken Berry]

To get a 90 minute project to fit onto a single layer DVD, apart from rendering to standard def mpeg-2, you would also need to reduce the bitrate to around 6000 kbps or just a little over, if using Dolby audio.

[cdoughertycd]

Canuck: Problem with this project is it is so long, 1 hr 31 minutes and I'm trying to get it all on one DVD. I have to make 20 copies so don't want to have to burn 40 for a 2-disk set to get It on standard DVDs.

In my ignorance up until this project (for years) I was doing intermediate render to wmv or MPEG-4 both at 1080p, thinking I was getting better resolution on DVD burns, but that was for projects no longer than say 45 minutes. I've finally learned from these discussions that VS has turn it back into an MPEG-2 anyway for burning so my intermediate rendering was useless. This was told to me more than once on the forum but the remaining brain cells I have left get pretty stubborn, lol.

This long project I'm doing I did compress it down to 6000 kbps with dolby audio and it does fit on standard DVD at about 4.3 GB. The quality might pass but definitely not really good.

So do people with longer projects end up doing multiple disk sets to get better quality? I haven't tried anything blue-ray. My clients are old and haven't caught up with it yet. I've tried dual layer DVDs in the past but they always hang up where I'm assuming it goes to the 2nd layer.

Can you give me a suggestion, should I make a 2-DVD set to get better quality? I don't want to give my client junk, have tried to make up for it with nice crossfades, music, nice DVD label and jacket. The closeups of people aren't bad, it's worse when I zoom out. I can go ahead and split the project up to two disks, but 2nd opinion is so welcome. This project was long memorial service for a 96 year old lady.

thanks for all your help and that of everyone else here.

Candy
(Los Angeles)

[canuck]

Candy,
splitting the 90 minute project over 2 DVDs should give better quality. Why not do a test run over 2 discs and see if the result is worth the extra work. You would then be able to use the HQ (best) quality setting for each DVD.

[cdoughertycd]

Canuck:

I already went ahead and burned 20 single disks with MPEG file at 6000kbps, it will pass, but for my next project coming up tomorrow, where do I click on the HQ for best quality? This would be in X7 or X6?

thanks so much,
Candy

[cdoughertycd]

Robert Oz - back to the audio pop issue at overlay crossfades. Here are the audio properties:

This audio was split from the video. The video and overlays are muted, but pops still occur where a video overlay has a crossfade from the video to the overlay. I have tried manually lowering volume on both muted lines even though muted on the video and overlay but it still occurs. Something's not quite getting muted somehow.

thanks,
Candy

[RobertOZ]

Hi Candy, here are my video properties

It may be that your video is using Dolby Digital Audio that is causing the problem, seeing as you have split the audio, can you convert to AAC or WAV and see if that makes a difference.

Robert

[lata]

Hi Candy

I have just read through your posts with interest, so just a few questions….

1 / You mentioned that the audio Pops were heard when using X7, do you have the same issues when using the same project in X6?

2 / Split Audio, I don’t use that option unless I require to copy a section of audio.
Are you using Split Audio in order to fix the Pop issue, I don’t think that will work?

3 / Can you tell us how you are applying the fades, there are a few ways to do that, some do produce a slightly different effect.

4 / From Preferences (F6) – Edit tab, what options have you set for Audio and Transitions section? Make sure ”Apply Audio Cross-Fade Automatically” is selected.

5 / How long do you have the Transition set to, if you use 2 seconds then set Audio duration to 2 seconds.

6 / You can drag one clip over the other to apply the transition and x-fades, If you are doing this make sure the overlap is long enough.
Applying a very short overlap may not be noticeable and could introduce a pop.

[cdoughertycd]

Hi Trevor:

1 / You mentioned that the audio Pops were heard when using X7, do you have the same issues when using the same project in X6?
I lost tract of what is what due to using X7 and X6 to get this last long project done, senior brain. I am going to start another shorter project I shot yesterday and will write notes as I encounter the audio pops issue.
I do remember when I rendered project to intermediate MPEG-4 1080p for a DVD burn I would get the pops, but when I rendered it to WMV, I did not get the pops. Anyway, I'll keep notes on this next project to be more specific.

2 / Split Audio, I don’t use that option unless I require to copy a section of audio.
Are you using Split Audio in order to fix the Pop issue, I don’t think that will work?
Answer: Yes - I was splitting out the audio to avoid the pops, learned from a guy on this forum and his youtube tutorial. Here is the youtube: http://youtu.be/a2SgRd4u6ZM - now a couple years old, made by Bob Kovacs.
Up until X7 I had to split the little sections of the main video to lay over the overlay for transitions other than fade to black. I just realized I could have dragged fade to black transitions in X6, did not know that until this discussion and seeing how X7 works.
X7 now allows drop and drag any type of transition to the overlay clips, not just fade to black, a great new feature.

3 / Can you tell us how you are applying the fades, there are a few ways to do that, some do produce a slightly different effect.
Answer: I have been applying the fades between main video and overlay video per Bob Kovacs' youtube video, link above, manual cutting and overlay, lots of work, until I bought X7 and realized I could drop and drag transitions, any kind, so much better.

4 / From Preferences (F6) – Edit tab, what options have you set for Audio and Transitions section? Make sure ”Apply Audio Cross-Fade Automatically” is selected.
Answer: In F6 I have been working with "apply audio crossfade automatically".

5 / How long do you have the Transition set to, if you use 2 seconds then set Audio duration to 2 seconds.
Answer: My transition length varies depending on how long I want it, some are short, some long. So I would have to set the audio for each one? Can you tell me where to do that?
I drag the transition in or out to make length I want. I don't keep tract of transition length by seconds, just by how it looks on the timeline and how it looks when played.

6 / You can drag one clip over the other to apply the transition and x-fades, If you are doing this make sure the overlap is long enough.
Applying a very short overlap may not be noticeable and could introduce a pop.
Answer: I think my overlaps are long enough due to I prefer them long, but thanks, good to be aware of.

With this next project I will make notes on this issue as I build it and burn it in either X7 or X6 or both.

thanks again for helping with this.
Candy

[cdoughertycd]

Trevor: In the transition where you mention set audio length in transition the same as the video transition, where would I do that?

I finished 30 min project in X7. What I'm doing to make longer fade to black transitions, I drop down the black color and drag it over ending and beginning of clips using crossfades. I am getting audio pops at some of these transitions, not all of them. This is an oral history with breaks between subjects. If I use fade to black over video it usually cuts off the person talking. I'll experiment with transition lengths with the method I'm doing and see if I can fix it.

thanks,
Candy

[lata]

Hi Candy

Sorry for the late reply, I have been on holiday for the past 7 days so not been able to read your reply.

The fade transition durations can be set via Preferences, press F6 on the keyboard,
This opens the preferences panel -- Edit tab allows you to set the durations.

If the audio fade durations are short then the fade effect may not be noticeable.

If you add a color clip-Black- than adding a transition the fade will be as set via F6 settings.
However if you drag the clip a little then the fade may be to short.
If the first clip has high volume and the second low then you may hear a pop?

Candy are you able to create a short project containing two clips that show the pop problem. I realise it doesn’t show on every clip?
If so can you create a Smart Package.
Provided it is below 20 mb you can send that to me , I will provide a e-mail address. Sending the mail may take some time depending on you internet connection.?

Otherwise use a sharing site to upload / download you package.

Note that using any form of fade will loose the sound and ultimately the person talking.

[cdoughertycd]

Hi Trevor, Sorry I wasn't able to get back on sooner to see your reply. I really appreciate it. I completed that project despite pops in transitions so if/when I encounter it again I will send something to you.

thanks,
Candy