Smart Photo Fix always suggests same settings

[maxfrost01]

Hi,

Running PaintShop Pro X6 but I've had the following problem for years and with earlier versions of the software.

Every time I use Smart Photo Fix (SPF) it suggests that I need to increase brightness by 28.
For a long time I was using the automatic settings on my camera so I just figured I was consistently shooting too dark and SPF was just putting me right even though it sometimes looked like the 'After' shot was too bright.
But now I've progressed to using manual setting on my camera and no matter how bright or how dark the RAW photo might be, SPF suggests that the image needs to be 28 points brighter!
I've even tried using the bracketing feature on my camera so I get the same 3 shots with slightly different exposures and, guess what, each one needs to be increased by 28!

It's not the end of the world as I can ignore the SPF suggestion and make the brightness adjustment by eye, but I just figure I must be doing something wrong and could be missing out on a better quality photo after the editing process.

Anyone help?

Max

[pdxrjt]

I just checked mine on Jpegs that were extremely different....one landscape-daylight-predominantly blue and the other city architecture at night lit up. Smart Fix gave very very different settings. So first, are you using it on similar types of pics? Next, I don't use PSP to convert my RAW images....so the fault may be there.....how is your RAW image converter?

[maxfrost01]

I'm using Smart Photo Fix on a wide range of RAW images but consistently get the same suggested settings.
I don't understand the question "how is your RAW image converter?" I edit the RAW images using PSP and then save the final version as a PDP.
Is that what you mean?

[maxfrost01]

Just read my reply.
Next to last line should have read "......then save the final version as a JPEG"!!

[MarkZ]

Max:

I've never used SPF before but tried it now on three bracketed RAW files. For the overexposed the overall number was a negative. For the middle and underexposed overall brightness was 28 for both but the highlight and shadow values were different in each. It seems that 28 is the highest suggested value - is this a bug?

But in the final analysis, it doesn't matter what the program suggests. What is most important is that you achieve the result you want by manipulating the settings. As I've said, I have never used SPF and instead tend to use Histogram and curves layers and sometimes the Brightness, etc. Also, I use ASP for RAW and PSP for jpgs from ASP. Different tools work best for one photo and other tools for other photos. Now that I've tried it I'll see how SPF fits into my toolbox.

[maxfrost01]

If I understand what you are saying, you are getting a similar problem to me in SPF.
That two of your bracketed photos gave the same brightness adjustment of 28 despite the fact that they were (obviously) shot on different exposures.
That does seem to point towards a bug.

I think the way to go (for me) might be to start working with Histograms which I have hitherto avoided - I was just trying to take the easy route to photo excellence! Histograms seem a bit complicated. I did recently try working with the 'Adjust' tab rather than the 'Edit' tab. This lets me see the histogram though, to be honest, it's currently all pretty meaningless to me!

BTW - what is ASP?

[MarkZ]

I think the way to go (for me) might be to start working with Histograms which I have hitherto avoided - I was just trying to take the easy route to photo excellence! Histograms seem a bit complicated. I did recently try working with the 'Adjust' tab rather than the 'Edit' tab. This lets me see the histogram though, to be honest, it's currently all pretty meaningless to me!

BTW - what is ASP?

ASP is Corel's AfterShot Pro. In my opinion it is far superior to PSP in producing quality JPGs from RAW files. In this forum you will find a number of discussions about PSP handling of RAW (see "I'm feeling RAW") with mixed opinions. ASP allows for good non-destructive editing of a RAW file before doing the conversion to JPG.

IMHO I would not touch Adjust with a ten foot pole. Just my opinion but the reason is that the changes are not reversible - you can't go back a few steps easily as you can in Edit - and there is danger of inadvertently overwriting a file. But obviously it works for some people.

I use Histogram Adjustment, most often the Adjustment layer rather than from Adjust in the menu. I don't know what Histogram Equalize or Histogram Stretch do, don't like the result, so don't use them. In Histogram Adjust I use the arrows beside the box that has the value of Gamma to increase or decrease brightness. I find it gives a nice even change in brightness. I often also enter a small negative value, -2, -5, (or use the slider) for midtone expand. And if I'm using Adjust the first thing I do is duplicate the layer so I can easily get rid of change I don't like.

[maxfrost01]

Ah, AfterShot Pro!
I've never invested in a copy. I know it's not the most expensive software on the market but whenever I've read the promo material I am left thinking that it does nothing that PSP can't do - or at least nothing that PSP should do! Thus I am always left with the feeling that I am being asked to pay twice for the same software.
Sounds like you see (and use) a distinct difference between the two?

Very much appreciate all your advice on this.

Max

[Forriner]

Hi,

As a quick start in understanding histograms, you might like this article: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutor ... rams.shtml

And in PSP, Edit tab, you can view the histogram too: menu View/Palettes/Histogram or F7. And size it as big as you like if you don't dock it.

[MarkZ]

Ah, AfterShot Pro!
I've never invested in a copy. I know it's not the most expensive software on the market but whenever I've read the promo material I am left thinking that it does nothing that PSP can't do - or at least nothing that PSP should do! Thus I am always left with the feeling that I am being asked to pay twice for the same software.
Sounds like you see (and use) a distinct difference between the two?

Very much appreciate all your advice on this.

Max

It does one thing that many feel PSP does not do well enough - and likely should - and that is to convert RAW to jpg or TIFF. Editing is done quite differently than in PSP. All changes are non-destructive so you always have the original. Versions created in the program take up very little space, kB instead of MB. The Library or Catalog allows for very extensive search using a wide variety of parameters. I'm able to store images on an external hard drive but I can do searches and preview the images without the drive being connected. All these features sold me on the program when I began shooting RAW almost exclusively. There are free alternatives and much more expensive ones.

[maxfrost01]

Hi, Mark

It's a damning indictment of PSP that it doesn't convert RAWs to JPEG well enough! Fairly fundamental I would have thought?

I think I understand your point about 'non-destructive' but I kinda get that already with PSP. I can work with the RAW, I can save any changes as a PSP Image (small file size) before making a final 'Save As' to JPEG.
I usually delete the RAW once I've got my final JPEG as the RAW files just take up sooooo much space.
Sounds like you always keep your RAWs?

I do like the idea of being able to scan the RAWs without actually accessing them on an external hard drive.
But you must have to connect the external hard drive to do the actual editing?

[awm03]

IMHO I would not touch Adjust with a ten foot pole. Just my opinion but the reason is that the changes are not reversible - you can't go back a few steps easily as you can in Edit - and there is danger of inadvertently overwriting a file. But obviously it works for some people.

I use the Adjust tab way more than Edit. What do you mean the changes are not reversible? I have no trouble reversing changes or a series of changes using the undo feature. I've never ever inadvertently overwritten a file either, because I can't do that without deliberately hitting a Save button, then answering the pop-up box "Do you really want to save this file?" (or whatever the wording is).

In fact, I edit RAW files using the Adjust feature, then save them as a .jpeg. Guess this isn't the right way to do it, but it works fine as far as I can tell. When finished, a dialog asks me if I want to save changes to the original RAW file. I say NO, and the file reverts back to the original.

I use SPF on almost every picture because I generally like the results, and yes, Brightness jumps to 28 every time. I don't recall this happening in earlier versions, so maybe it is a bug? Still, SPF generally gets me close to good results, so I use it as a starting point and fiddle with the settings from there.

[MarkZ]

What do you mean the changes are not reversible? I have no trouble reversing changes or a series of changes using the undo feature. I've never ever inadvertently overwritten a file either, because I can't do that without deliberately hitting a Save button, then answering the pop-up box "Do you really want to save this file?" (or whatever the wording is).

In the forum people have reported moving from one area to another and not realizing that their file had been overwritten. My impression is that saving is not as clear-cut as in Edit.

What troubled me with Adjust when I tried it was this: if I made a number of changes then went back and wanted to tweak something I had done, say brightness, the value that would show up was not what I had changed to but back to the original point. Say I had set brightness to 10, went to another adjustment, came back to brightness and the value has been reset to 0. My expectation is that the values I set should be retained until I save. Yes, I can undo, but if I want to undo something five steps back I have to undo all the steps in between to get to the one I want to eliminate. In Edit I can go back using history to specific actions and undo only that editing step.

In fact, I edit RAW files using the Adjust feature, then save them as a .jpeg. Guess this isn't the right way to do it, but it works fine as far as I can tell. When finished, a dialog asks me if I want to save changes to the original RAW file. I say NO, and the file reverts back to the original.

It's not case of right or wrong, it's a matter of personal preference. I've experimented with a number of tools and have settled on what works for me. Perhaps I expressed my dislike for Adjust too strongly. For images I care about I found PSP does not give as good quality as other options. Adjust does not work for me, Edit does all I need to do with greater flexibility and control.