avchd playback

[BrianCee]

Number 1 is not quite right Ken - that needs to say "On your COMPUTER create a sub folder etc."

[Ken Veal]

The list below is where I am at and how I got there after recording 1080/50p files to my camcorder.

1 plug in card reader
2 open computer
3 cam_sd f: shows as external drive
4 double click above
5 dcim and private folders show
6 double click private folder
7 avchd folder shows
8 double click above
9 double click bdmv folder
10 double click stream folder
11 file content shows all as avchd video
12 copy and paste required files into hard drive sub folder
13 in vs with subfolder open ,click import media files
14 browse to hard drive sub folder, select required files
15 click open
16 files populate vs sub folder
17 drag files to timeline as required
I quote Brian
"You will need more help when it comes to rendering your finished product."
Can I request more guidance on rendering and what ever else I will need to know at this stage please

[lata]

Hi Ken

16 files populate vs sub folder, we assume you are referring to the Library panel.

1 / What version of Video Studio are you using, I am sure you will have told us in earlier posts but can you confirm.

2 / You are using 50P ( Progressive), go to Settings and tick Enable 50P editing, that will set the timeline to use 16:0 50 frames per second. The timeline will display all frames.

3 / What are you intending to make, To be honest I am asking myself the same questions here, I need to update my pc to include a Bluray Burner, so far I can only do Hybrid Discs?
Do you have a bluray burner on your pc?

Not to confuse the issue but 50P 1920 x 1080 is not compatible for burning a BD (BlurayDisc), you have to render to either 1920 x 1080 x 25 or 1280 x 720 x 50.
And I don’t know which way to go, decision still in the melting pot. but tending towards 50P.

so far for me I have been recording to 1920 x 1080 x 25fps. These are compatible to burn a BD without changing the format.

You may however wish to burn a standard DVD?

Editing your files is just the same as editing your older DV-Avi.
What you render to depends on the answers to 3 above?

[Ken Veal]

Thanks for your reply Trevor.I hope the list below can be followed

Re item 16. Yes, the files populated to the named sub folder in the library panel
1 I am using Pro X5 (Perhaps the version being used could be a heading in the “specs” column on the right of posts ?)
2 This was covered in my workflow above re 4 under settings tick “enable 60p/50p editing”
3 I have a B/Ray player but not a BR burner
4 My Panasonic HC-X920 camcorder, as far as I can tell, only gives me the option of recording to 1080/50p, 1080/50pi or iFrame. I have used 1080/50p
5 I am open to advice concerning what to render to
6 .Questions re item 5
7 What is the longest time video that you can burn on a hybrid video on a standard DVD .Previously I have had an average of an hour’s finished product to view on one DVD
8 Do I understand correctly that files rendered to a hybrid DVD will only play on a Blue ray player.If so that means if anyone else wants to view the DVD they cannot without a blue ray player.
9 What parameters do I use if I burn to a hybrid standard DVD
10 To make the finished product more universally accessable, can I transfer the rendered project to an SD card .Do people not use this method because of the cost of cards compared to standard DVDs or there other reasons for not doing this.
11 Will burning to a blue ray recorder allow for longer running time.
12 Is the bottom line that to view HD video you need a blue ray recorder so that you can burn to one
13 Will any one really notice the difference if the best quality hybrid standard DVD burn properties are used compared to watching the video on a blue ray player

[lata]

Hi Ken

I am going through the same process as you in that I only upgraded to HD last year, a few months before you bought the HC-X920, so probably a little in front of you on the learning curve. I have been googling to find a Bluray Burner, I have no idea what to get, then I need the BD discs.

I will try and answer some of your queries.

Your camera records to 50 p or 50i, the latter is 25 fps, just the terminology that confuses us. The camera will default to 50P, at least mine did.
50P will use 26000Kbps whereas 50i (25fps) uses 16800kbps

The following sizes assume 25 fps at 16800kbps. Video Studio uses 18000kbps as a max for AVCHD.

Hybrid discs, that’s burning HD to your DVD disc holds 4.3 Gb of data, that’s approx 30 minutes of HD video. And yes you need a Bluray Player to play hybrid discs, after all they hold the Bluray folder structure, very similar to the folders you see on the Panasonic when searching for the Stream folder.

If you wish to play on a Standard DVD player then you have to convert/ down scale the HD to SD, that’s the same as converting your older DV-Avi to Mpeg2 DVD.
Downscaling the HD is gonna impact on quality, yes you will notice the difference.

Burning a Disc AVCHD (Hybrid Disc)
As a test your best option at the moment is to Share Create disc AVCHD then choose to create a AVCHD Folder, save that to a USB Flash Memory, play through the Bluray Player, will play as disc with menu. Then progress on to burning a disc.

As I say your video 50P will be converted to 50i when burning Bluray and AVCHD Discs

Bluray Discs hold 25 Gb of data so at 26000kbps about 2 hrs max.

The Hybrid disc should have the same quality as a Bluray disc providing the same files are used for both burns.

[Ken Veal]

To summarise Trevor’s help here is my take on it
1 I don’t intend to down scale from HD, so a blue ray player is needed to view the video whether it is on a card, hybrid DVD or Blue ray player
2 I will , for the time being, save to a usb stick.
3 As VS uses 18000kbps as a max for AVCHD I assume this is the rate to use for what I want .Where and when do I set this rate
4 If and when I progress to burning to DVD (hybrid), it will give about 30 mins running time at 18000 fps and blue ray disc about 2 hours.
By the way, I have had no emailed notification of the last 2 posts

[Ken Veal]

1 I have enabled smart proxy
2 I have selected” enable 60p /50p editing
3 Does doing 1 + 2 this make what ever else is selected or not in project properties and preferences not applicable/relevant ?
4 I have completed a small 4 minute project that includes transitions, music, titles jpeg images ,AVI files( that were imported from the PC hard drive that were made when I used Windows XP) and files from my cam’s SDHC card. This is basically a test project to end up on a usb stick initially so that I can construct a workflow for future use and then consider making a hybrid DVD later.
5 I assume my next step is to go to the share tab where I would like to make a menu and then to get the video onto a usb stick.
This is where I am not confident on what procedures to follow and would appreciate some guidance in the way of a workflow to continue and achieve what I want

[lata]

Hi Ken

1 / You may not require Smart Proxy, the process does create quite large files.
Are you having playback problems during editing.

2 / as your video is recorded in 50P then you should use that option, however I think you will have to consider working with 25 fps video (1920 x 1080) as those are compliant Bluray.
That is back to your camera and your next recording session.

3 / 1 and 2 do not affect other options used in Video Studio, setting 50 p sets the timeline to use 50 fps not 25fps, also forces 16:9 ratio.

4 / Good that you are doing some test runs just to see how things go.

5 / You need to convert/render the project using Share Create Video File – AVCHD-AVCHD (1920x1080P) or AVCHD (1920x1080)
This will change the 50 P to 25 fps. Try both options to compare quality, one is Frame Based the other Interlaced "Upper field"

I mentioned earlier in working with 50 P or 25fps, which one I use is still up in the air as a decision goes.

But a recent test playing 50P via USB on my Bluray and DVD players failed to play smoothly, clearly my players do not like 50P, then again 50P is not Bluray compliant.Hmm

Following 5 above will create a file that will be Bluray compliant using 25fps and play on my players.
Add these files to your USB to play on TV via your Bluray Player

6 / Your next step is to Share Create Disc, for hybrid Share Create Disc Avchd.
The next process is the same as you did when using your older video DV-Avi’s.

So as not to complicate things further we can discuss the last pages options for burn disc or Create AVCHD folders after you have done 5 above.

But…………….
I may have given the wrong impression in that a AVCHD Folder will play through a USB stick, yes the video will play but not the menu structure, at least that’s how my system performs, yours may be different and allow menus to play, you can check that later.
A Hybrid disc will of course play ok, but we don’t want to many coasters.

Hope that helps

[Ken Veal]

Re
1 Have been advised here to enable smart proxy, don’t know anything about it but followed recommendation. Had no trouble editing it,
2 So do I have to use it or not (I can then amend my workflow after a definitive yes or no answer)
3 Do you mean that now I still use the same settings in preferences general , edit, capture and performance tabs as I did with dv tape eAVI use.
4 Will he same apply to project properties settings like edit file format –mpeg-PAL 25fps-lower field first-DVD Pal 16.9-vid data rate 7000.audio data rate 384kbps,multi channel sound .(My 920 cam records in surround sound)lwr field 1st ?
5 From what you have said, I convert/render the project using Share Create Video File – AVCHD-AVCHD (1920x1080P)) as his will change the 50 P to 25 fps and be blue ray compliant.

[lata]

Hi Ken

Smart Proxy is used by Video Studio to help in smoother playback, this is usually a problem when editing Avchd files, but is also associated with your pc capabilities.
A fast pc will not have problems, as far as I know Ken Berry does not use Smart Proxy his PC coping with smooth editing and playback within Video Studio.

The decision to use Smart Proxy is yours, do you have problems with Project Playback, Playback from the timelines being smooth, if you have no problems then you do not need smart proxy.

When I mentioned your older DV-Avi I was referring to your workflow.
The process of editing is the same for any video type, we simply render to the appropriate format. When you do Share Create Disc – Avchd the burner module opens, what you see here is the same as using Share Create Disc DVD.

Your AVCHD video are Mts and as such you will render your project to MTS, AVCHD templates will create those types.

Your Project Properties can be ignored with the exception of using 16:9 widescreen.
X5 cannot replicate the HD settings as Project Properties, so do NOT use Share Create Video File – Same as Project Properties.
However Share Create Video File Same as First Video Clip may be useful, provided the first clip is indeed one of your MTS files and not from Video Studio library. (Instant Projects etc)

Sorry if I confused you regarding DV-Avi.

5 / yes that is correct, there is also the option AVCHD (1920x1080) without the “P” for progressive, this will create an interlaced video, “Upper Field first”.
This will be similar to the video recorded by your camera if you deselect the 50P recording option.

That is something you should consider when next recording, whether to use 50P or 25 fps?

[Ken Veal]

1 Thanks for all the input. Following your comments and considering my PC specs, I think I will not enable smart proxy next time as I do not seem to have any probs with playback etc
2 Do NOT use Share Create Video File – Same as Project Properties. Project Properties can be ignored with the exception of using 16:9 widescreen. Share Create Video File Same as First Video Clip may be useful, provided the first clip is indeed one of your MTS files
3 So my next step is to go Share Create Disc – Avchd.
4 The process of editing is the same for any video type, simply render to the appropriate format
5 Re both of our item 5
“5 / yes that is correct, there is also the option AVCHD (1920x1080) without the “P” for progressive, this will create an interlaced video, “Upper Field first”.
This will be similar to the video recorded by your camera if you deselect the 50P recording option.”
It seems to my novice mind, that “p” would be the choice as it is similar the the cam’s recording.Is there any difference in quality in using p or not.Where do I
deselect the 50p recording option to use 25fps and be b/ray compliant .

[lata]

Hi Ken

When viewing your camera, open the screen, on the face of the camera body is the "on/off" button.
To the right of that is a button marked 1080 / 50P, that switches between 25 fps and 50 P

At least that's where it is on my camera.

[Ken Veal]

I have the open cam in front of me and there is no button to choose between 50 + 25 anywhere on the outside of the cam .I have revisited the record set up on the screen and the rec mode options are 1080/50i ,under that there is PH,HA ,HG and HE 920.
Otherwise the only other options are 1080/50p and iframe.
In the printed basic operating instructions spec ,under motion pic rec format it lists (AVCHD):AVCHD format version 2 compliant
(AVCH 3D/progressive) [can record in 3D with 3D lens]
(iFrame)

Motion pic compression
MPEG-4 AVCHD 264
“ “ MVC/H 264 (AVCHD 3D )

[lata]

Hi

In that case they have updated the 920 version from the 900, the option to set 50P seems to be part of your on screen menu, record mode.
I see HA1920, HG1920, HX1920, HE1920 and iFrames.

I do not see PH,
The option 1080/50P will record to 50fps
The other options 1080/50i will record to 25fps.
The “i” indicates interlacing 50 half frames = 25 fps

I have my options set to use HA1920, that will record to 25fps.

Open the screen, tap the centre of the screen, I do this twice, the recording type should show, along with other data I see 1080P. That’s if 50P is set.

I can only advise that you read the manual to find how to change recording options, recording modes, ignore references to 3D.

[Ken Veal]

1 As I understand it, HA favours picture quality and HE favours file size. PH, HA, HG, and HE are all 1080/50i but with different bit rates. They are listed above in order of quality .An example follows
2 1080/50p (28 Mbps / VBR), (1920 x 1080/50p)
HA (17 Mbps / VBR), (1920 x 1080/50i)
HG (13 Mbps / VBR), (1920 x 1080/50i)
HX (9 Mbps / VBR), (1920 x 1080/50i)
HE (5 Mbps / VBR), (1920 x 1080/50i)
3 1080/50p is the highest 920 cam pic quality
4 To set the cam to record in HA 1920 in future I touched the arrows bot left of screen-menu-rec set up-rec mode-HA 1920.That is 25fps and blue ray compliant.?
5 Does this mean that I will have probs playing back the 1080/50p video that was test recorded onto the SDHC card and in now in a VS project ?