Rendering problems with VS4

[john chapple]

When rendering a project the screen goes opaque and a message 'program not responding' appears after about 23%. this has happened every time I try to render a project over 40 mins long. I am trying to render from avchd to H264. I have done so several times in the past without any problems but for some reason this bloody thing has started playing up!!!!! Can anyone give me a solution please

[canuck]

Some information about your project would be helpful. What are you sources: format, length, etc? What editing, transitions etc are you applying? What is the total time length of your project? What are the properties of your source video? To what format are you rendering?
How long do you wait when it says "not responding"?
Is it always with the same videos?

The more information you supply the easier it may be to help.

[Ken Berry]

In fact, he has already told us the original format and what he is rendering to. However, that just confuses me, as he in fact says "I am trying to render from avchd to H264." Since AVCHD is in fact high def mpeg-4 rendered with the h.264 codec, is he trying to render to the same format -- even though it seems he thinks the two are different? Or is he trying to render to vanilla flavour mpeg-4 or something else?

John Chapple -- can you please right click on one of your original clips *in the Video Studio timeline or library window* and copy ALL its properties here, or take a screen grab of the Properties box and upload it here. Then we will at least know exactly what we are dealing with. And could you also explain a little more what you see as any difference between AVCHD and h.264...

And by the way, your program is VS X4, not VS4. X4 is in effect version 14 (Roman X for ten plus 4).

[john chapple]

Hi Guys.
Sorry I will try to clarify my problem. I have made two films and rendered them to h264 from AVCHD so they can be played on windows media player. You may advise that I'm doing this wrong, but I have used this method many times and uploaded to youtube and been able to watch them on WMP without any problems in the past. So now I have two H264 M2ts files I want to join together and that is where the trouble starts.
Looking at my file properties I think I may have discovered the problem, One is PAL 25fps the other is NTSC 29.270 fps so I guess these will be in conflict. If this is the case can you tell me how to change my projects back to PAL please. I re-loaded the VS X4pro so I guess the settings have returned to default.

If you have an easier way to join two projects together please let me know

Thanks

John

[lata]

Hi John

Ken asked for the properties of the originals, I assume these are from the same camera so should be using the same properties. That raises the question, where did the original video come from, we assume a camera and not previously converted.

Please right click the original clips used in the projects, choose properties, create an image of the window to attach to your post.
I have to wonder why the originals don’t play on WMP?

You have created two projects and rendered them to h264, It would appear that you have used the wrong template for one of the projects.

I have to say that combining Pal and NTSC should not cause the program to crash, it may not produce the quality you were hoping for but should not crash.

[Ken Berry]

And again you say:

I have made two films and rendered them to h264 from AVCHD

But as *I* said above, h.264 is *already* AVCHD... Or are you just talking about the extensions used by the clips i.e. when you talk about AVCHD do you mean files which end in *.mts, and when you say h.264 do you mean files with the .m2ts extension you mention? If so, then .mts and .m2ts are just two ways of ending files in the same format. No conversion should really be necessary.

And further to Trevor's question about where the files came from, if indeed it was a HD AVCHD camcorder, then you have at least three ways of getting the files from camcorder to computer. The first would be to connect the camcorder to computer via USB cable, then simply treat the camcorder drive as another computer drive and copy/paste the video files from the camcorder to a folder on the computer. The second way would be to take out the SD card from the camcorder and put it in a card reader in, or connected to, the computer and do the same thing. Both would give you files ending in .mts. The third way would be to connect the camcorder to the computer, open Video Studio (whichever version), right click in either the library window or timeline and choose 'Insert Media Files', then navigate to the camcorder drive and select the files you want. The files would then appear in VS as .m2ts files -- but the properties would (or should) be identical to the .mts files apart from the extensions.

[john chapple]

Hi Again.
The original files are AVCHD from a panasonic camcorder HS-60 and do play on windows, I just put lots of them together to make a long video. When I render them I choose Bluray h264 from the create video menu....there is no specific reason why I choose this file type it just works. Having made two films I then want to join them together. I put them both on to the timeline and create video in exactly the same way as before but the program stops and the screen goes opaque with the message Corel video studio has stopped working. Here are the screen shots of the two videos I'm trying to put together

Hope this helps

John

[Ken Berry]

I note that the original video is progressive 29.97 full frames per second and progressive 25fps. You can tell this by the fact that they do not use Upper Field First, which would make the video i or interlaced. Unfortunately, by choosing Blu-Ray h.264 as the output, you are making the end video interlaced, as the international Blu-Ray standard does not include 29.97p or 25p -- only 24p at 1920 x 1080 and 59.94p (NTSC) or 50p (PAL) if the frame size is 1280 x 720p. In other words, the international Blu-Ray standard only accepts progressive video in very limited formats, and yours is not one of them.

It could thus be that VS X4 is having difficulty not so much with the mixing of NTSC and PAL footage -- which as Trevor has suggested should normally only affect the output of one of the formats, depending on whether you chose to output as PAL or NTSC -- but also the fact that it is having to convert the footage from progressive to interlaced. Taken individually, the program should be capable of each action, but taken together, it might be what is causing the program to crash. While your computer is a decent one, AVCHD/h.264 is one of the most demanding formats currently available and needs a pretty powerful one to edit. One idea you might want to consider is to use VS X4's SmartProxy feature. This creates a standard definition copy or "proxy" of the high def original. You do the edits in that, and only when satisfied are the edits then applied back to the original.

And again I can only repeat that the video out of the camcorder is AVCHD, which is mpeg-4 encoded using the h.264 codec and normally using the .mts extension. Converting it to AVCHD once again -- which is what you are doing, the only difference being the extension used -- is really only slightly degrading the quality by one degree. AVCHD/h.264/mpeg-4 are lossy formats i.e. reach render degrades the original quality. Being high definition, of course, means that the human eye will probably not see the degradation. But if rendered again, some degradation might become visible in the form of blocky artifacts/pixellation.

VS will accept .mts files direct from the camcorder. There is no need for your initial "conversion"...

[john chapple]

Hi Ken.
I don't convert the original AVCHD files, I place the original files on to the timeline having loaded them into the media library and when I've finished assembling my film I then choose 'create video file' bluray h264 1920x1080p. Should I be choosing just bluray 1920x1080? or what would you suggest. I 'm trying to get the best results as I occassionally project the resulting films through a HD projector onto a large screen. The ntsc 29.97 progressive file was created after I re-loaded VS X4 from my original m2ts interlaced file......my mistake! how do I change my VS X4 back to Pal? is it under the settings menu, preferences-edit and choosing the PAL option? What process would you use when creating a film lasting over 60 mins, it would be nice to know if I've been doing the wrong thing all this time!!!

here's the pal screen shot.....the one missing from my last post

Thanks again Ken

[Ken Berry]

In fact that PAL screen shot showed up after I had originally typed my above response. When I saw it, it edited my post, and added some extra info, so you might want to read it again.

If you don't intend to burn an actual Blu-Ray disc, then you could equally chose Share > Create Video File > AVCHD 1920 x 1080P, as it would not matter then whether your original or output files were P or I. And it also wouldn't matter whether the project were over 1 hour in length. If in fact you propose to burn a Blu-Ray disc, then you just need to bear in mind that the project needs to produce a Blu-Ray file which is no larger than 25 GB if you propose using single layer Blu-Ray discs. (That is what I use -- have only tried a dual layer BD disc which was rewritable, and I had some problems with that. So I stick to single layer discs.) So if you think your end video is going to be larger than 25 GB, you do the same as you do with standard def DVDs: reduce the bitrate.

As for why your X4 is showing NTSC instead of PAL, that choice is made right at the start of the installation process for the program, where you are asked which country you live in or whether you use PAL or NTSC. So I suspect you are going to have to reinstall VS and make the correct choice at that point.

[Ken Berry]

I just noticed that you said:

The ntsc 29.97 progressive file was created after I re-loaded VS X4 from my original m2ts interlaced file.

Where/how was this interlaced file produced. Neither of the screen shots show interlaced video. Both are progressive...

[lata]

Hi

If you have re-installed Video Studio X4 and not select the option to use Pal or UK then NTSC standards will be installed.
All/most default templates will use NTSC.
Ken is correct the only way to set Pal as default is to re-install the program and choosing the correct option.

Share Create Video File……….

With your original clips in the timeline
Is Same as First Clip available when doing Share -- Create Video File.
If yes then that would be your best option, once you have sorted the NTSC Pal mix-up that is.
----------------------
Screen shots for the forum, Pressing Alt + PrtSc will copy the actual window and allow you to create an image of just that. Save as Jpeg.