Record or Convert? 60p vs 24p

[richiemoe]

Hello,

I searched around this forum before creating this, so i apologize if has already been discussed!

Long story short, I do not know what the best way is to convert 60fps to 24fps and have is still look good. Or should I change how I record video? I assume if i record everything in the best setting possible, it would be easier to convert video into a lower setting versus trying upscale it... I'm not too worried about memory size, just the quality of video for editing purposes.

I use Corel Videostudio X6 Ultimate and have a Sony HDR-CX220/B (AVCHD) that records in 60p, 60i/30p and maybe 50p. I thought it recorded 24p, but guess not. So I guess i want i just want to know for future reference on how I should record most things. I like the options i have with slow motion in 60p. Is it best to record on high settings with 60p or 24p? I guy i know likes to record more fast paced video in 60i. I am just nervous of recording in a poor format...

For all of the video that i have already taken which included my engagement and 4 weddings for friends/family members, i want to product the best video i can, which was all taken in 60p. Should i keep it that way or convert it to 24p? Previous videos that I have done in the past for friends and family have turned out good and people have offered to pay me to video now. So eventually i would like to save up for a nicer camera and use my current one as an extra to get additional angles.

Thanks,
-Rich

[Ken Berry]

Why the focus on 24p? I know it is the "movie" look, but there would be one obvious drawback in converting your 60p footage to 24p.

First off, dropping from 60 full frames per second to 24 means quite literally that 36 frames per second are being thrown away. This is likely to produce a somewhat jerky video which might be particularly noticeable in any faster scenes on the video. But even fairly static images will still appear a little strange...

In a sense, it also depends on what you are going to make with the video: a Blu-Ray disc? A DVD? Or something else? If it's a Blu-Ray, then you have little alternative but to at least down-convert from 60p to 60i (i.e. 29.97 fps) since the only video format with 60p which is compatible with the international Blu-Ray standard is 1280 x 720p. Converting to that format would still produce good quality video, but not as good as 1920 x 1080.

If you are producing a DVD, then again you have no alternative but to down-convert to 29.97 fps --though this could at least be 29.97 full frames per second since a DVD can accept 'Frame Based' video which is essentially the same as progressive video in high def terminology.

[richiemoe]

Hi Ken,

Thank you for the reply! Many of the other forum websites that i've read had people talking about recording in 24p. I thought it would be more difficult as I don't know what i plan on putting in slow motion at the time of the recording... It just seemed like 24p was a big deal. I guess it gives videos that "movie" look, but couldn't i still attain that with effects in 60p? Is 60i a lot worse than 60p or just for slowing down things?

Most of the videos that i make are put onto DVD or created into a digital format to stay on their computer or posted online. I'd like to try and "future proof" as much of the content as i can. I just figure that this gives me more options as technology progresses eventually be able to play full 60p. Although that will probably all be 4k by then... lol Or am I looking too much into this?

Thanks again,
-Rich

[richiemoe]

also, i forgot to mention my camera can record 1920 x 1080 60p, rather than 720 at 60p like many. does that make a big difference? looking through video footage last night that i took for of a friend's wedding, i love being able to slow down parts of the video and have it still be smooth!i think better camera handling skills would make more of a difference than worrying about 24p, right? lol

[Ken Berry]

If you are going to be doing a lot of slow motion, then I guess starting off with p for progressive footage is better than i for interlaced simply because every frame is entire, rather than made up of two interlacing sets of lines.

But again I can only say you are perhaps focusing too much on 24p and what it does. Remember that commercial films are normally made by big studios with big money and lots of fancy equipment, and with many of the shots assisted by lighting, even in the outdoors. An amateur film maker is unlikely to be able to replicate many of these aspects, and their resulting 24p footage will probably not be much like commercial 24p. Just my opinion, and probably others would shoot me down in flames for saying it.

Better camera handling skills IMHO is of more immediate importance, especially since modern AVCHD cameras are so small. Despite the stability modules they might contain, hand held cameras inevitably introduce some shake or viewing angles which are not quite right. One thing I would suggest you do would be to invest in a decent floating head tripod which will make panning shots -- both horizontal and vertical -- smooth. It will also allow you to set the camera precisely to have a 180 degree baseline or whatever other angle you might want for a particular shot. Velbon makes a really good one for under $100. Then I would look at an external microphone. Only much further down the track would I even remotely start thinking about the virtues and vices of 24p vs. 60p or even 60i...

One handling point which you might already be aware of is never to do fast horizontal pans in AVCHD (or other high def formats). Filming in full 60p is slightly more forgiving in this regard, but overly fast pans will still introduce a degree of "shimmer" which is at best distracting to the human eye, and at worst can make the footage virtually unwatchable during the pan... If you watch professionally-shot HD footage, you will notice that pans are verrrry slow and only cover a moderately sized angle of view.

Sort of as a footnote, you said:

I just figure that this gives me more options as technology progresses eventually be able to play full 60p. Although that will probably all be 4k by then...

In point of fact, I -- and probably many others -- already shoot in full progressive mode (in my case 50p since I am in a PAL country). Moreover, I watch my edited footage in full progressive mode on my HDTV. I rarely make Blu-Ray discs, even though I have a burner and two stand-alone BD players. As you may be aware, many recent HDTVs can play AVCHD footage directly from a USB drive (stick drive or external hard drive) plugged directly into them. My own Samsung is a bit older and can't do this. But I have two PlayStation 3's which are great Blu-Ray players. Both are connected to HDTVs, and both accept USB drives. Moreover, they play 50p footage without a hitch. In other words, the technology already exists -- though I acknowledge wider distribution of such footage to family and friends remains a problem.

[richiemoe]

Thank you so much Ken!

I think you are right, and i was just looking too much into 24p.... I just started looking way too much into it. Gotta work on the basics first, learn what i like and what works for me. Just nervous of doing it wrong a few times, as i can't go back a re-record some of those moments...

There is almost a night a day difference between the first videos that i shot and what i've been shooting now. And i'm sure i will still keep learning how to control the camera better. i have a tripod that i got on amazon that had the best reviews for that price range, but it is not a floating head one. It handles my heaving canon rebel well, but i can still tell it feels cheap... lol I will look into Velbon, thanks!

I've slowly learned that fast horizontal pans are a big no-no! haha that is why i enjoy shooting in 60p, so i can slow it down and smooth it out a little. but only so much i can do with poorly recorded video. luckily it hasn't been with anything super important!

After reading that footnote, that sounded weird, but i'm glad you understood what i meant about trying to future proof it and give me the most option to edit it later on. But i guess 1080 60p will look better on a 4k tv than older and much poorer formats. As fast as technology is moving and prices are coming down, my next camera might record in 4k! lol Slowly friends and family are using more than just DVD's to watch their videos, so its nice to be able to cater to their requests.

Thanks again Ken!

[aljimenez]

I am in total agreement with what Ken say and with your desire to be as future proof as possible. I also agree with the final agreement on 24fps. I also capture all my videos in 1080p60.

What I want to add is that an 8GB USB stick can be bought for way under $10, and a 16GB USB is just above $10. These have become my new standard for distributing special videos to family and friends. Most new TV's can play these USB sticks with significant higher quality than DVD's and even Blueray DVD's. I distribute non-special videos via Youtube and/or Vimeo. I think I just made one DVD this year out of around 30 video clips made... Al

[canuck]

I am in total agreement with what Ken say and with your desire to be as future proof as possible. I also agree with the final agreement on 24fps. I also capture all my videos in 1080p60.

What I want to add is that an 8GB USB stick can be bought for way under $10, and a 16GB USB is just above $10. These have become my new standard for distributing special videos to family and friends. Most new TV's can play these USB sticks with significant higher quality than DVD's and even Blueray DVD's. I distribute non-special videos via Youtube and/or Vimeo. I think I just made one DVD this year out of around 30 video clips made... Al

I don't see how using a USB stick will give "significant higher quality than DVD's and even Blueray DVD's". It all depends on the video quality you select when rendering

[aljimenez]

I don't see how using a USB stick will give "significant higher quality than DVD's and even Blueray DVD's". It all depends on the video quality you select when rendering

I agree; a video can be rendered with lower bit rates than DVD and it will play badly in a USB stick. I should have said that it can give higher quality since DVD bitrates and fps are constrained, while USB sticks can handle much higher bit rates and higher fps.