PSP versus PSE and PS

[photodrawken]

Sorry, Cassel, but in the same sentence you're saying you don't want to discuss which program is "better" and then saying you want a list of features that are "better" in PSP.

I want to show Adobe users that PSP ALSO has things to offer so that PSP might also sit alongside Photoshop or PSE as another tool in the toolbox.

I think that's a very laudable thing, and I wish you success. I'm glad I was able to contribute some possible items for it.

The reason I played devil's advocate was to keep the discussion focused on your original intent (as quoted above) and not degenerate into a counter-productive "Photoshop is awful" tirade. My point is that it's better to be realistic and show the legitimate comparisons between like applications. For one to attempt to dismiss another application by claiming someone else will never use its features seems to me to be disingenuous, to say the least. Stick to the facts, be confident of the application that suits you best, and provide examples of actual features that show why you've chosen that application.

[Cassel]

but in the same sentence you're saying you don't want to discuss which program is "better" and then saying you want a list of features that are "better" in PSP.

I see a difference between saying that one program is better than the other, and saying one FEATURE is better in one program or the other.

[photodrawken]

Cassel, I'll be interested to see what you come up with. Do you think that you'll be showing the difference between two clicks and three clicks, or are you intending to focus on actual features?

Edit:
Also, do you intend to compare PSP with PS or with PSE, or with both?

[Cassel]

I am first going to mention features that are in PSP and NOT in PS/PSP (like tubes)
then, I will go with features that seem easier/faster/more convenient (like the customization of the workspace and the scripts which are more powerful than actions).
I am hoping to get about 10 items to list and illustrate, and mostly those used commonly in digital scrapbooking as I am not targeting the professional photographer for example.

I just want to break the myth that PSP is "only for beginners" and that it "can't do anything better than PS/PSE".
And I have no problem in showing that if one has PS/PSE, there is no need to dump it, but there are advantages in adding PSP to their arsenal.

[photodrawken]

mostly those used commonly in digital scrapbooking.

That area is completely alien to me, so I'll be interested to see what you consider important there.

there are advantages in adding PSP to their arsenal.

I couldn't agree more. There are advantages in adding any editing program if there are different features. I've added the 32-bit PSPX6 to PhotoLine's external applications list for the sake of the marginally useful (for me) features PSP has (like image recompose). Even though I'll rarely need those features, since I've already paid for PSP I might as well have the features "just in case".

Edit:
Sounds like you intend to use PS in comparison with PSP. For the reasons I've stated before, I don't think that's a good idea, but it's your video.... Just be aware that even though PSP scripts are more powerful than PS actions, PS also has a very powerful and comprehensive scripting environment, and that scripting environment can also be used to control PSE.

[Cassel]

I am not intending to only compare with PS but with PSE too. I was told that PSE does not even have native vector functions (so things like text on path is not possible natively). This is something I was told as I have no experience with PSE even if I have a copy. So this is what I want to showcase: what PSP can do.

[photodrawken]

I was told that PSE does not even have native vector functions (so things like text on path is not possible natively). This is something I was told as I have no experience with PSE even if I have a copy.

For what it's worth, I'd advise actually using PSE (even a trial copy) so you can see for yourself the differences with PSP.

Case in point: even though PSE does not have vector drawing functions, it does have a vector path tool as part of its "Text on Path" function.

[brucet]

Not taking away any good intent with this thread. But a simple fact of life is that many many folks buy on 'status/wants' grounds rather than on a needs basis. Folks do this in many aspects of their life. Vehicles, homes, cameras you name it. Software is no different.

The key to the PSP v PS question is, IMHO, not a comparison of features as such. But rather a series of questions that a potential user can answer in an effort to determine what they actually NEED.

Incorporate a means of answering those questions into a comparison and you may just have a winner. Reality will, to those who are honest with themselves, reveal that PSP is indeed a 'better' buy as it will be better suited to their needs. Assuming we know what their needs are!!!!!

Good luck.

[LeviFiction]

I am not intending to only compare with PS but with PSE too. I was told that PSE does not even have native vector functions (so things like text on path is not possible natively). This is something I was told as I have no experience with PSE even if I have a copy. So this is what I want to showcase: what PSP can do.

While it is true that PSE does not have the same flexible vectors that PSP does, it does have paths and text.

PSE does not have the same vector abilities as PSP but it can do a lot of the same things in different ways if you know how. Text on a curve for example, PSE actually has several text tools. Some for just regular text, others for text as a mask, and still another for text on a path. Where the path and the text both remain editable.

It also has vector shapes that you can use. Though I haven't seen the ability to make your own custom shapes.

So it's a lot more structured, one of the issues I always had with PSE is that while you can do a whole lot with it, they seemed to always add very special tools so things were highly specialized. You didn't gain the same flexibility. But that hasn't stopped it from being powerful.

A
PSE does have a color curves adjustment. But it's specifically for brightness and contrast of the whole image, focusing on midtones, highlights, and shadows. So definitely not the same as Curves. Maybe PSP's histogram adjustment would be closer.

How far are we willing to take what can and cannot be done between PSP? I'm assuming you want to keep it native. As plugins and scripts can bring a lot to both that aren't normally included anyway. For example ElementsXXL can bring a whole slew of new adjustment layers and tools to Elements including commands like Curves. Same with a software called Elements +.

Having never looked into it myself, I had heard that through Actions it was possible to get Elements to use Photoshop's curves tool because it still existed in the code even though it wasn't included in any menu. Don't know if that's still true.

Same with PSP. Provided Corel keeps releasing KPT the Gradient Lab could be used to create a gradient map. Same could be said for scripting.

[Dizzie]

the scripts which are more powerful than actions

I'd like to know where you got the idea that scripts are more powerful than Actions. I have used tons of each and have yet to see scripts in PSP do what the actions in PS do....but then maybe that is the fault of the script creators and not the capabilities of the scripts.
I can undo an action step by step all the way back to the beginning or to a place I want but with PSP scripts, I can only undo the whole script. That's a big problem for me because so many times I don't want the layers merged.

[Cassel]

The difference can be in the way scripts and actions are coded. I have seen plenty of scripts work exactly like actions, which is a recording of the steps taken, and the end result is always the same (although you can change the colors sometimes). However, scripts can be coded and edited to include randomness (I was told actions can't do that), and include options (actions can't do that), use anything a user can provide as a start material or even perform actions outside of PSP (like creating a txt file with results of some checking commands).

As an example, an action might place various elements in a certain format, but one action might be for placing 4 elements, another action will be for 5 and so on, while a script can be coded to count the number of elements and "decide" how to place them according to the starting number, meaning, you would need only one script instead of 5 actions.

I might be wrong, but that is the information I got from veteran action makers. To perform the same thing as a script in PSP, you would need a script in Photoshop (yes, you can make scripts) so you have to code them in Javascript language, and as far as I know (especially in the scrapbooking area), there are just a handful of those.

And as far as going back one step, yes, the undo command will undo all the steps, but you can also run a script interactively (so you can stop where you want, although it is longer), or you can edit the script to stop at a certain point, by simply typing "return" in the script code where you want it to stop. Maybe you can ask the script writer to get you a version to stop at a certain point? Or to code it with the OPTION to merge or not (which is what I tend to do).

[LeviFiction]

Hey Dizzie, that's actually a feature of scripts and one that can be removed.

Scripts in PSP are just Python scripts. So it can be expanded to do a lot more than just what is built into PSP. When a script is recorded directly from inside of PSP, PSP automatically includes a special command called "Optimize Undo." What this does it it tells PSP to treat the script as one giant command. If you disable or remove this command from the script then PSP will treat each action inside the script as its own command. So you can get the feature of Actions if you want just by turning off that one command.

PSP scripts are more powerful than actions not because of one feature or another, but because of how much you can expand PSP scripts and how intelligent you can make them. In fact with some time and effort you can even make Scripts perform panorama functionality inside of PSP.

[Dizzie]

Thanks carol and Levi! That tells me that it is the fault of the script creators. I guess there just aren't as many complex script creators out there as there are action creators. At least not in the scrapping field where most of mine come from. Maybe after delving into photo editing more deeply, I'll find more.

Thanks for the great tips and Merry Christmas!
Dizzie

[hartpaul]

[quote="Dizzie
I can undo an action step by step all the way back to the beginning or to a place I want but with PSP scripts, I can only undo the whole script. That's a big problem for me because so many times I don't want the layers merged.[/quote]

I just discovered this in the last couple of days that you can undo parts of a script and that would probably suit your purpose Dizzie.

You use the Edit Selected Script icon which is just to the right of the Run Selected Script icon..
I was working with a large number of similar images and some were a little light and needed a litle darkening first using Adjust > Brightness and Contrast > Brightness and Contrast.

I recorded a script using that as the first step, then Adjust > Color > Red/Green/Blue and finished with Adjust > Brightness and Contrast > Levels. So three steps in all. For images that were light all three steps were used, for images that were a bit darker I clicked Edit Script, unticked the box, Saved and ran that. When I needed darkening again I just Edited, and reticked that box. For images that still needed a bit of tweaking I just toggled the Execution mode so I could fine adjust each of the operations.


This could be done by you for a merge layers and leave all other steps in place.

[Dizzie]

When I click on edit script it opens in notepad. You have to know scripting to edit the raw text.