Oval Vignettes and feathered edges

[Dphotobug]

Hi all, and thanks for a good forum here. I'm brand new and have just downloaded a trial version of Paint Shop Pro X6 because I'm looking for a program that will go a good job on oval vignettes with soft (feathered) edges. I know very little about PSP X6, but I have watched several of the tutorials on YouTube and I've read some articles.

I can open the program and select a picture from my files. Through the videos I learned how to identify some of the PSP X6 tools. I click on the Ellipse tool on the lower left in the tool bar. Then it gets weird. Sometimes I'll make an ellipse on the photo and the ellipse outline stays there. Sometimes when I do this an oval is created. Every time an oval is created my picture is the background, and the part of the picture I want is white. It's like it's doing it backwards. I've seen the tutorials about selecting INVERT, but I've had no luck whatsoever with that.

This should be a very simple process, but I'm totally mystified how it works. I used to run a very simple program years ago that Microsoft put out called PictureIt. I really liked that program but it's outdated now and it won't work on the Windows 7 64 bit I'm using. I have tried several programs and Paint Shop Pro X6 seems to be the closest to Pictureit that I can find, but I'm expecting PSP X6 to be more advanced, precise, and better overall. In PictureIt I'd do the exact steps I just mentioned and the area I selected would be the oval picture, the rest was white, and then I feathered the edges. In PSP X6 it's mostly like that, but it's reversed. The picture I want is the background.

I'm sure there is a simple way to do this. I hope I'm only a click or two away from getting the oval and background right, and then I'll need instructions on feathering or softening the edges. I'm hoping someone here can help me do that. If you mention menus please give me the general area where I can find them. This is my second day to try the free trial. I'm really hoping this works in PSP X6 because it seems like a really good program and if I can figure out some of the basics I want to buy it. But the deal maker is going to be on these oval vignettes with feathered edges. That's the one thing I have to have.

Thanks a lot and I hope to get the answers here.

DS

[hartpaul]

If you are using the Ellipse tool on the lower left toolbar (associated with the Preset Shape, Rectangle and Symmetrical shape tool ) then I think you are in the wrong area.
There is a simple vignette effect.
Effects > Photo Effects > Vignette which allows a circular , rectangular and freehand vignette.

There are also a number of videos on youtube using earlier versions of PSP but basics are the same.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbFsnfs1m0o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8ykzLOsJaM
This one lacks some fine directions and assumes some knowledge.

Also do a search on this forum on Vignettes for other examples.

[Dphotobug]

Thanks for the reply. However I had tried that and could not get the results I wanted. The Oval feature gives much more control over the size and position of the oval used as a vignette. At least in my limited experience.

So far, the videos I've watched all mention the Oval feature. There is one video done by Mr. Corel showing how he did a vignette of his son, but this was an earlier version of PSP. That looked pretty easy but I can't find every control he mentions when I'm looking a X6.

I'll do another search and also will view the videos you referred to.

Thanks. And if anyone else has suggestions, please send.

DS

[Dphotobug]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbFsnfs1m0o

That is the instructional you referred to, and also the one I referred to. He's achieving what I'm trying to do, but his controls don't appear to be in the same place as the new X6. He zips through it pretty fast, assuming the viewer is familiar with the purpose and location of the controls he's using. If I knew where to find all the things he's using I could probably make it work.

The way I'm used to doing it is simple to select a picture, draw the oval, click, and it's done. The only other thing is to feather the edges, which is just as simple. On the video above he's inverting things and going through a LOT more steps than the simple and straight forward way I've always done it in PictureIt. I can't understand why the default has it set to do just the opposite. Instead of of drawing an oval and the background disappearing, the content inside the oval disappears.

Regardless if you can tell me where he's finding all those menu options on the face of X6 I could probably make it work.

Thanks again.

DS

[hartpaul]

The Menu bar and Tool bars are much the same in X2 (the video) and in X6.
Menu bars:

Tool bars:

On the tool bars some items have been combined (red lines).
The tools used in the video are marked with green dots.
While you may have been used to a dedicated vignette program, paintshop pro has a lot mor power to have different shapes for the vignette and also different colours.

OK the steps from the video with some additions:

1. Choose the selection tool (third from top -associated with magic wand , freehand selection and a couple of others.) If it is not showing you click the little down arrowhead to see the other choices OR use shortcut key S.

2. Make Selection type - Ellipse, Mode can be Replace or Add (for a first selection) and set the Feather amount to about 2% of your image width, eg 2000 pixel wide landscape image would be about 40 pixels. If you make a mistake you can use the blue undo arrow or Control Z to go back.

3. When drawing the ellipse on your image if you hold the Shift key down the ellipse will be centred on your starting point. Draw it so it does not hit any of the edges. You can move that final selection by Right click drag inside it.


4. On Menu bar - Layer > New Raster Layer. Accept defaults by clicking OK. You should have a transparent layer on top of your image.
If your Layers palette (F8) and Materials Palette (F6) are not visible use the shortcut keys to get them showing. The layers should be Raster 1 on top and Background on bottom. and Raster 1 should be selected and highlighted (light blue).

5. Left click a colour on your Materials palette (usually black or white, but you can use any colour as well)


6. Select the Flood Fill tool (spilling paintbucket - shortcut key F, -no need for shift key).


7. Currently your selection includes the inside of your image and we don't want the black / white / colour here, but surrounding it, so we need to invert our selection.
Menu bar - Selections > Invert . You should now see the marquee (marching ants) around the margin as well as aroung the oval.


8. With that flood fill tool and the colour selected left click anywhere outside the central oval and that area will fill with the colour chosen leaving the vignetted central area. At this point if you don't like the colour you can undo and select a new colour and fill with that.

Gives this result:


9. You can change the opacity of the colour to allow a bit of the rest of the background to show through. On your Layers palette just to the right of Normal there is a slider in the box that says 100, you can slide this to the left to get the transparency you want.


10. You still have the marching ants there so you need to remove them by Selections > Select None (shortcut Control D)

11. You can then merge your image and save it as a jpg. On menu bar - Layers >Merge > Merge All (Flatten) .

And the final result:


OR
if you wanted to do a number of similar sized images with the same Ellipse, you could save this as a psp file and load it in for future images. All you then need to do is to replace the image leaving the Vignette mask in place.

[Kathy_9]

There is also another option for adding a Vignette. Go to Effects -> Photo Effects - Vignette. Effects is one of the menus along the top of the workspace.

Also, since you are new to Paint Shop Pro, here's is a link to a series of YouTube videos created by one of the members here, LeviFiction. He walks you through a lot of the tools and explains them without going too fast. And, the nice thing is that if you have questions, you can post them here in the forum and get an answer from Levi or one of the other users.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... ction&sm=1

[Dphotobug]

Thank you HartPaul for the time and effort you gave to show me the process step by step. There is a lot more to it than I first thought. The old program I used was designed so that in 3-4 clicks you were done. In PSP it seems I just keep getting deeper into more and more menus.

I tried your method but the problem I always have is that if I go to the Select tool and pick the Rectangle, the rectangle shows up on the picture and the picture is not changed. EVERY time I do that with the Ellipse tool it blanks out the inside of the ellipse. I can never get it to just show the ellipse overlaid on it. I think that outline is what you are calling the marching ants. Also, every time I go to INVERT, the INVERT control is greyed out and not useable.

I learned a good bit from your instructional, but I still haven't accomplished a feathered oval yet. This program may be a little too complicated for what I'm trying to do. I'm amazed at all the controls and menus and steps that are needed to accomplish a relatively simple task. Regardless, I'll try it some more, and maybe someone can clarify why every time I use the ellipse tool that it turns the area inside the ellipse white. And why my Invert control is always greyed out.

Thanks again.

DS

[hartpaul]

Perhaps you could elaborate on which step causes the problem. I have numbered the steps and given a basic description of what should happen.
Have also now added some sample images to show what you should be getting.

[Dphotobug]

Thanks again for the time and effort. I've tried to follow your instructions letter for letter and I'm still not getting anywhere. Since you went to all the time and trouble to do this for me I went back through it all and made notes each step of the way. Here's what's going on.

Step 1. I can do.
Step 2. I can do.
Step 3. The first problem. When I make the ellipse on the picture and click, the ellipse always enlarges itself. I have the feathering set at 30. Maybe it’s enlarging to cover everything including the feathered edges. When I set the feathered edges to 0, then the ellipse doesn't increase in size. Therefore, I have no idea how to guess what's going to be within the original photo and what will be outside of it. Each time I feather the edges then part of the ellipse is outside the photo and will show as an abrupt line where the picture starts.
Step 4. I can do.
Step 5. I can do.
Step 6. I can do.
Step 7. Another problem. When I select INVERT and click that, then the marching ants are around the original rectangle of the picture and my ellipse changes to a very small one in the center of the picture. I’ve done this step for step over and over and it happens every time, except when I have the feathered edges set to 0. I have no idea why this could affect it.
Step 8. I can do, but it’s usually pointless after the ellipse has changed like it does in Step 7.
Step 9. Haven’t tried since the ellipse is off from what I want, caused in Step 7.
Step 10. I can click the Ctrl and D to stop the marching ants.
Step 11. Have not tried because I never have a picture I want to save. It’s all so botched up by this time that I just close the program.

At the very best I can get an oval image, but so far have not been able to produce one with the feathered features. I've not gotten it to work yet. Can you feather the edges later and actually see what you're doing? Or do you have to guess at what degree of feathering to use?

[hartpaul]

OK checking your first problem at Step 3.
"When I make the ellipse on the picture and click, the ellipse always enlarges itself."

Not sure what you are doing here. I am using X6 64 bit version on Windows 7 Home Premium. I have not installed the SP1 and hotfix because of the problems others have been experiencing. My version number is (Help > About) is 16.0.0.113 x64.
I have a single layer - labbelled Background.
I am holding down the shift key and left clicking and dragging from about the centre of the image and when right size releasing mouse button. I then get the marching ants in the elliptical shape. I am not making an ellipse and then clicking?
I can then righ click inside the ellipse and move it to correct position. This gives me the appearance shown in Step 3 above.

Are you saying that you cannot get a feathered selection at all?
Edit: have just tested on X6 64 with SP1 installed and works OK there, then installed the hotfix for the zoom window problem and still works OK to give the same image as in Step 3.
Edit 2: Just experienced your case of the ellipse enlarging itself. Did you note my suggestion to have the feather amount set to 2% of your largest dimension - that feather of 40 was suggested for an image that is 2000 x 1333 pixels landscape.

If you use that value on a smaller image or one that is scaled up to fill the workspace area or more then you will get that enlarging of the ellipse. What is happening is that you draw the ellipse your desired size and when you release it adds on the amount of pixel feathering, which in that case would increase the ellipse by a total of 80 pixels and if your image is only say 600 pixels that will be a big change.

[Dphotobug]

Thanks Hartpaul. I tried some more and experimented with the feathering. When I set it to 0 I could get the ellipse that I wanted. I did note your suggestion of 2% and I also saw you mention setting it on 40 for a certain size picture. When I set the feathering to a small number, like 10, I could get the soft edge effect without the ellipse enlarging too much. I'm guessing that I had the feathering number set too high at first, and that is what caused the ellipse to enlarge. I guess it was taking in everything that it was feathering, and the high feathering number was taking in way too much space.

Once I experimented with the feathering settings a bit I could create the ellipses with the feathered edges. But it took nothing less than your very good, and very detailed instructions, and several follow ups for me to step through it and finally get it right. Left to intuition and/or trial and error I would never have figured it out. I hope if the program designers see this they will simplify it.

They have already attempted a simpler version that is available by going to EFFECTS > PHOTO EFFECTS > VIGNETTING but I can't find an ellipse tool there. The circle and rectangle are there, so it shouldn't be that difficult to add the ellipse tool, also. This specific vignetting feature is on the right track and with a few tweaks it could be perfected to do everything you and I have done, but it could all be done on one screen, from one menu, with a few clicks. That is the way I would imaging most people would prefer it, and Corel could leave the complicated way there also for those who might find that it offers more flexibility. But for a simple vignette the simple way would be preferred by far. The old program I used was similar to the Effects > Photo Effects > Vignette feature here. It was all from one menu, on one screen, and all the adjustment sliders and adjustments were right there. You cold make the adjustments and see the results. If you didn't like them you could keep changing and tweaking until you had it the way you wanted it, and you could see the effects as they implemented. Very easy. A few clicks is all it took. Corel has basically done the same thing, but didn't give the simple version all of the features. I hope they will in the next version.

The other thing that was confusing is that when I open the program I have a vertical toolbar that appears on the left side of the screen. Four icons from the bottom there is a pinkish Ellipse icon. In the beginning I always used that one, which I naturally assumed that all the various ways to select the ellipse tool were the same. For whatever reason, that particular way to select the ellipse tool is what always made the interior of the ellipse disappear. And when using that particular ellipse tool, every time I went to Effects > Invert, the Invert control was greyed out.

Actually, until your tutorial, I never knew about the shape menu (Tool Options) with the ellipse tool that shows on the right side of the screen. I'd click the Select tool on the left side and never noticed the menu opening on the right side. I still don't understand why the Select tool is up near the top of the tool bar on the left and it opens the shape menu (Tool options) on the right, especially when below on the left tool bar is an icon of the ellipse, but that ellipse option only made the inside of the ellipse disappear. A lot of this is very confusing to the beginner, and hopefully it will be simplified.

Thanks again for the in depth tutorial. I hope it will serve others as well who are attempting to make an elliptical vignette with soft edges. Between now and the next version of PSP I hope they will consider simplifying all of this. It is way beyond what a new or casual user could ever figure out on their own. It took me several days to get it all figured out, thanks to your tutorial and follow-ups, but I finally got it right and I appreciate all of your time and help.

Thanks again and all the best...

DS

[Kathy_9]

They have already attempted a simpler version that is available by going to EFFECTS > PHOTO EFFECTS > VIGNETTING but I can't find an ellipse tool there. The circle and rectangle are there, so it shouldn't be that difficult to add the ellipse tool, also.

DS

You can easily create the ellipse by using the selection tool (not the preset shape tool) and then go to photo effects to apply the vignette. This will work if you are looking for a less complicated method similar to what you were used to with PictureIt.

[Dphotobug]

Hi Kathy and thanks for the reply here and the previous one. I appreciate the time you took to help with the vignettes.

I tried what you said but I can never get the same results going through Effects > Photo Effects > Vignette. Maybe I'm not doing something right, but the effects don't seem to be as noticeable. For example, the feathered edges do not seem to have the range of softness as doing this the longer way. it seems to work better with the circles instead of the ovals, so maybe I am doing something out of order.

I was going to the Select tool on the left vertical tool bar, the third selection down, and then I drew the oval, went to the colors and selected white, went to Selection > Invert and the clicked F for Fill and then had the picture in an oval like I wanted it. Then I went to Effects > Photo Effects > and Vignette and used the controls there but they didn't seem to have the range of dramatic effects as doing it the other way.

Again, maybe I'm doing something out of order, or not doing something right, but the results are never as good going through Effects > Photo Effects > Vignette as doing it the other way.

Thanks again,

Don

[Kathy_9]

That's the nice thing about PSP - there's usually more than one way to do something. Is this the kind of softness you were looking for in the feathered edges or something more dramatic? I did this by creating an ellipse on the image and then used the photo effects to apply the vignette. I played with the feathering, blur, etc. until I got the softness I was looking for.

[Dphotobug]

Kathy, your picture looks fine. And has lots of softness around the edges. Obviously you have the controls and adjustments working good. My feathering is slight and vague at best.

I have not gotten anything close to your results so far. I'll try some more.

Edit:
1. Are you using a Raster? When I do it seems the Effects > Photo Effects > Vignette tools are disabled. No matter how I set them nothing seems to change on the picture.
2. If I don't use the Raster I can never get every thing around the ellipse where my picture is to disappear. It leaves traces of the original picture. I have to click the Fill tool several times around the picture to get even a fairly even coverage. I know that can't be right.
3. I read what you said and tried to follow it step by step. We must be leaving out something. I've tried it several times and every time the results are limited, unpredictable, and disappointing. The results I'm seeing aren't even close to being right.