VideoStudio Prox6: Graphics cards & hardware acceleration

[Inapickle]

Hi,

I've just recently upgraded my PC setup from an ancient single-core cpu (AMD) PC to an 6-core AMD PC:

cpu: AMD FX-6300 3.5GHz 14.0 MB cache
motherboard: Asus M5A 78L-M LX-Plus
graphics: ATI Radeon HD3000 integrated (AMD 760G chipset)
RAM: 8GB DDR3
Sound: RealTek HD surround 7.1
Hard drive: Maxtor SATA 3 500GB
Monitor: LG Flatron 19" LCD (legacy from my old system)

And I've also now just upgraded from Corel Video Studio 11+ to Pro x6, primarily to benefit from the multi-threading support.
Now, I'm rather disappointed to find that the integrated ATI Radeon HD3000 GPU does not support hardware acceleration.
And looking at the requirements for VS x6, I see that this also needs a minimum of 512MB VRAM and at least Windows Vista.
I am presently running good old XP Pro SP3, but was anyway planning to upgrade to Windows 8, or maybe Windows 7 (if I can find a better deal), within the next week or so.

Anyhow, the main subject of my inquiry is on the choice of a suitable graphics card upgrade. With 450W PSU, that really limits the choice to:

AMD Radeon HD6670:

Full specs: http://www.amd.com/us/products/desktop/ ... iew.aspx#2

although there is this 2GB DDR3 version on-sale locally which I am considering:

http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/amd ... 91076.aspx

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/xfx-amd-rad ... Id=4677014

or else:

Nvidia GeForce GT640 2GB

http://www.geforce.com/hardware/desktop ... ifications

A tad pricier, but also available locally:

http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/asu ... 16417.aspx

In the VS x6 user guide, it states, quote " For optimum performance, VGA cards must support DXVA2 VLD mode with Vertex and Pixel Shader 2.0 or later"; I have no idea what all that means.

I would be grateful for any advice on which of these two cards might better provide the optimum benefit from the hardware acceleration support in VS Pro x6, ideally from hands-on experience or else based on the specs. I have seen a few comparisons in relation to gaming, where, by and large, they appear to have similar performance (as 'entry level' cards) but being somewhat influenced by the games being played and the 'computing boosts' they favor.

Many thanks.

[TonyP]

Both cards support DX11 along with PixelShader5.0.
Now, while I use AMD video cards exclusively, getting a card with GDDR5 ram is better than the older slower DDR3 ram.
If I were buying a card, Nvidia does have the GT640 with 1gig GDDR5 ram and so does AMD with the HD7770. Both prices on newegg.com at are $89 and $99.
Maybe Bestbuy is close to where you live, but you can get better deals online. I don't know about the tax in Calif, but shipping to NY I never paid tax and bought free shipping items.

[Inapickle]

Thanks.

I'm actually based in Canada and definitely New Egg apply tax on Canadian orders.

I did think about the HD7770 also, but I'm concerned that the 450W PSU on my PC might not be up to it. The specs state: "500W (or greater) power supply with one 75W 6-pin PCI Express power connector recommended".

I bought the PC ‘on a tight budget’ from an outfit who specialize in building gaming PC’s. My rig was one of their basic combos. The standard upgrade would have been the same with 2GB DDR3 HD6670 card. I did phone them on the weekend to seek some advice on the GeForce GT alternatives, but the brief conversation was rather difficult (constantly being put on hold) and all I managed to glean was GeForce GT640 OK, but not 650. Just why, I’m not sure. I’ll maybe pass by the shop and speak to the tech who was there when I bought the PC.

I don’t really want to put anything in that could risk voiding the warranty if it came to that.

Looking at your set-up, that’s definitely what I would have gone for had finances been less constrained. The FX-8350 is one of the fastest processors out there for encoding video. Still I’m happy with the FX-6300 for my needs. Just wish I thought more about the editing side of things at the time.

Cheers.

[TonyP]

Use what you have, and what you have is not bad. Sure, we all want faster, better, etc., but the reality is for most of us, the finances aren't there for the constant upgrading. I build my systems to last me a couple of years, then I upgrade slowly depending on my editing (not gaming) needs.
Depending on the quality (who made it) of your power supply, a 450 would work if you don't have a ton of fans and other accessories.
My computer is running on a 650watt BFG. I overclock the CPU, and the GPU is factory overclocked. I have 2 hard drives 4 fans (top, front, side, back) and an aftermarket air cooler with another 120 fan attached. No problems at all.
The HD7770 is a very good card and fairly efficient.
Power supply calculators HERE and HERE. That way you will know for yourself and not be guessing.

[Inapickle]

Thanks for advice and the calculator links. Checked today with shop I bought the PC from and they also reckon the HD7770 would be OK, as long as I don't load too many peripherals. Of course, they were/are expecting that I would order through them. The PSU is an ATX model by the way. As it stands, there's just the one fan blowing directly on to the CPU. I don't use that much in the way of peripherals, at least at any one time - firewire for capture and a couple of external USB drives, basically. I might consider putting a second internal drive in at some point, but I like to store most of my stuff off the PC.

So, next decision is whether to bite the bullet and upgrade XP Pro to Win8 (thence 8.1), or continue scouting around for a better Win7 upgrade deal, which are likely to become more and more scarce as April approaches. Crikey, I was reading today that an estimated 30% of all desktops in the world are still running XP.

[TonyP]

As I said, as long as you have a name brand power supply, you should be good. With all the stuff I have, a 500watt power supply would work.
As for operating systems, 64bit is the only way to go. You can access all the ram you put on your motherboard. Not like with XP (which I loved), max was 3.25gigs, even if you had 4gigs in the slots. 32bit limitation. I know people that are using Win8.1 and with a small program like Classic Shell (to give you the old start button instead of Metro interface) are happy. They do suffer from some programs that don't work properly though. I'll stay with Win7 as long as it's useful. There is nothing in Win8 that I need.
Make sure that you have the power connections on the power supply (they mostly all are ATX) for the video cards.

[Inapickle]

Thanks again for the valuable advice. I'm not at home now, but will check the PSU connections as you suggest.

Well there's certainly no lack of enticing deals on OEM versions of Win7 (32 and 64-bit) but I'm not sure I want to go down that path.

Not wishing to sound like a skin-flint ("domestically-constrained frugality" would be a more apt label); I have, of course, thought about Linux (Ubuntu/Mint) but that would mean having/attempting to run VS Pro x6 (along with other windows applications) on a virtual platform (VirtualBox etc) or via Wine/CrossOver. But then, assuming either even work, what would be the prospects for deriving benefit from a video card with hardware acceleration capability? Anyone gone that route with any measure of success.....largely for interests sake?

My only brief flirt with Wine and VirtualBox was on my old single-core AMD PC, when I had Lubuntu, and then Xubuntu (which was all it could manage) installed on a separate drive. And that was just to see if I could run AVISynth on Linux. Gave up in the end, and despite having XP Pro and Linux on separate drives, there always seemed to be issues with either Linux, at shutdown (especially with VirtualBox installed), or XP, at boot-up, unless I physically disconnected the linux drive prior to booting into XP.

So, probably, in my case, a Win 8.0 (8.1) upgrade would be the best option, all round......assuming VS Pro x6 is fully 8.1 'optimized'? For sure, if I was already running Win7 I'd stick with it.

Cheers.

[TonyP]

I would not bother with Linux and trying to run VSP on it. Run it as it was designed... on the OS listed in the specs page. As for Windows OS, as I posted above, 64bit only. Nothing less. No 32bit. If you buy current, only 8.1 is out there. Do some google and look up Classic Shell so that you don't have to be bothered with the Metro interface until you are ready, which is still accessible by moving your mouse pointer to the very far right hand side of the taskbar and the Win 8 slider (Charms menu) will appear, then move the pointer up and click on start.

[Inapickle]

Thanks again.

I know this does not directly concern choice of video card, except that in order to be able to use the hardware acceleration feature in VSP I need to move up from XP, but.....I don't quite understand the XP Pro to Win 8/8.1 'upgrade' logic.

The MS website states that existing XP SP3 users must first 'upgrade' their OS to Win 8.0, and then update (like existing 8.0 users) to 8.1 for free. In the case of XP however, the upgrade necessitates a clean install. So, what is the difference then between that and going out and buying a full 32/64-bit retail version of 8.1, wiping my hard-drive and installing it. The basic price, $119.99, is the same for both. The only difference I can make out is that with the 'upgrade version' you are given the opportunity to purchase, for an additional $14.99, a disc for backup during the upgrade process - but to backup what - a clone copy of the replaced XP system or the newly installed Win 8.0? Why would I need to do that when I can easily make a copy of my 'XP drive' with the Acronis True Image (ATI) software I use, in the event that I needed to re-install XP - even if, for any reason, the 'boot-time' ATI system didn't work, I could still use a ATI System Recovery CD. And obviously, once Win 8.0 is installed I can easily make an ATI back-up, and the same after updating to 8.1.

And, if I understand correctly, the Win8 'upgrade' nullifies the replaced XP Pro license, so even if I wanted to install XP as a dual boot (on a second drive) or another PC, say my old PC, if I chose (as a backup until April, or to run 'offline' etc), I would not be able to do so. Seems to me then that this 'upgrade' route is more a MS strategy to accelerate the phase out of XP licenses and to gain some extra profit from the ancillary back-up medium in the process.

Would I be just as well then buying and installing a full retail copy of Win8.1 on DVD? Or am I missing something here?

[TonyP]

I would personally have 2 hard drives for each OS. You can choose which one you want to boot to when the computer posts. That way, as you make the transition to Win8, you can still fall back on XP and make sure that all your programs are installed on the new hard drive. It also makes it easier to copy assets (photos, video, music, etc) to the "new" hard drive.

Since you will have to do a clean install anyway, go that route in purchasing Win8 and not do the upgrade. And remember, 64bit. Also, make sure that you can get all the right drivers for your hardware too.
Get the full retail copy. I never "upgrade", because it usually has something to do with trashing my perfectly good system in place.

[Inapickle]

Just phoned MS Customer Support and spoke to a rep (who in typical fashion did not have complete knowledge of the products she was representing).

So, according to MS:

1. The XP 'upgrade' to Win 8.0 (and thence 8.1) would NOT nullify the license of the full XP Pro (originally purchased from MS) I presently have installed, so I would be free to re-install it on the same PC, as a dual-boot, or on another PC, if I so chose. Well that's good to know.

2. So, what would be the difference between that and purchasing a licensed full (dual 32-bit/64-bit) retail copy of Win 8.1 from one of the electronics stores? Apparently, if ordered from MS direct this would include full 60 days refund/exchange coverage, if the product was defective/not satisfied etc. If purchased retail, it would depend on the return policy of that store. But either way there would be full ongoing technical support from MS.

3. Does the Win8 'download version' include both 32-bit and 64-bit systems? She wasn't absolutely sure, but thought maybe it was only 32-bit (go figure !). But anyway, there is an option to purchase a full 'DVD-only' version that has the 32-bit and 64-bit options.

4. Selecting the 'download' version automatically adds a 'back-up disc' to the order, adding an additional $14.95, and there seems to be no option to deselect it. What is that? It is a hard DVD copy of the OS in case you lose the key and/or the download is/becomes corrupted. And what if I don't need/want it? Well, they could maybe work something out.

5. Do MS still provide an option to upgrade to Win7? No, the only option would be to purchase an existing Win7 product from a retail store.

So, good job I didn't go ahead and order the (maybe "32-bit only") download version !. Since the full (32/64-bit) Win 8.1 DVD version is the currently the same price ($119.99) in the stores, might be best all round to order from MS directly - at least that would (theoretically) avoid any returns hassle if it came to it.

Cheers.

Edit: I see you bumped me as I was posting, but I'd pretty much come to the same conclusion as you recommend. Yes, I'll be sure to check on the drivers. Thanks again.