Sound level problem when burning DVD

[Space Man]

Let me begin by saying how much I’ve appreciated this forum over the past several years; it has been an invaluable resource, and has helped me through many hurdles.

However, I’ve encountered a very unusual issue now with Pro X4, and reading through dozens of pre-existing discussion topics hasn’t yielded a solution—so, here I am.

The problem is related to sound, and it only appears when trying to burn a DVD; it’s as if the volume levels for every single track (music tracks, for example) are maxed-out. The projects I’m trying to put onto DVD are documentaries—so there’s a voice/narration track, and a lot of (originally) quiet background music. Volume levels are fine under every other circumstance imaginable—it is only when an attempt is made to burn a DVD that the sound levels are boosted up to full volume, thereby increasing all of these very low-level audio tracks up to full volume. Normalize audio is not checked—in fact, it is not even enabled for me under the share/burn DVD window.

For a while the problem seemed to be related to the presence of a menu; having a menu would create the problem. Now, however, even trying to burn a disc with no menu still results in the problem occurring. It also doesn’t matter if I try to work from the project on the timeline, or if I save it as a file, and try to burn a disc from that.

I have three projects that I’m trying to burn to DVD. While this sound issue began within one of them, it has now somehow migrated to the other two as well, so that all three of them possess this same problem.

Help!

[lata]

Hi

There are two main approaches in burning a DVD.
I assume you are opening the project then Share Create Disc – DVD
The burner module opens and displays the project as a single thumbnail. (a project file)
You continue to create the menu and finally burn the disc.
The process starts with Convert Title, this is rendering the project to a mpeg2 file that is used to burn the disc.
It does seem that this process is causing some problems.

You can however create that Mpeg2 from the main edit timeline
Do this……..
With your project open in the edit timelines do Share Create Video File – DVD choose the option that is suitable for your movie, I assume 16:9

The new Mpeg2 file can be played to check quality, does it show the audio issues.
If yes repeat the process Share Create Video File – DVD, from the save window choose Options and deselect Smart Render, again play the new Mpeg2 to test quality.

If you have created a good video burn the disc.
How
Start a new project, nothing in the timeline, Share Create disc DVD
Opens the burner module
Top Left to Add Media-Add video browse for the new Mpeg2 file.
Create the menu
When you hit burn the process starts with Convert Menu, there is no Convert Title as you have already created that Mpeg2, burn process will be quicker.

Finally
It may be the type of video files being used, and some types of audio, Lame MP3 can cause issues.

I did miss some thing, how long is the project, over 60 minutes and you will have to control the data rate, reducing it below 8000kbps, to render a mpeg2 below 4.3 Gb to fit the disc without further rendering. as a guide 6000kbps for 90 minutes

[Space Man]

Thank you so much for your input, Lata.

…I assume you are opening the project then Share Create Disc – DVD

Yes, correct—and when burning some early versions of the projects, doing it this way worked just fine.

You can however create that Mpeg2 from the main edit timeline
Do this……..
With your project open in the edit timelines do Share Create Video File – DVD…The new Mpeg2 file can be played to check quality, does it show the audio issues?

I did this route (several times, actually), and the video file plays without a problem.

…choose Options and deselect Smart Render…

Smart Render is an option that isn’t sounding familiar to me; that’s something that I’ll check on though…

If you have created a good video burn the disc.
How…

Yes, but going this route, I don’t seem to be able to change compression rates or anything, which results in a rather grainy-looking, poor quality DVD (in other words, there is a lot more space available on the disc, but trying to increase the kbps has no effect).

It may be the type of video files being used, and some types of audio, Lame MP3 can cause issues.

What’s odd though is that the films themselves have—and have always had—the same music and sound effects tracks, and haven’t caused any problems in the past.

I did miss some thing, how long is the project, over 60 minutes and you will have to control the data rate, reducing it below 8000kbps, to render a mpeg2 below 4.3 Gb to fit the disc without further rendering. as a guide 6000kbps for 90 minutes

Three films, about two hours each. And, yes, I’ve fiddled with the compression rates in order to ensure that the disk has enough space; I’ve tried both variable rates, and doing it with a fixed rate, and this has no effect on the problem.

A couple of additional points of clarification:
• The problem initially appeared on one project, but has now effected all my projects.
• It really only occurs when trying to burn a DVD; watching the films with them in the timeline shows no problem, and saving them as files and then previewing those also shows the films themselves to be fine.
• The problem occurs throughout the duration of each film, and is truly just like the volume levels of everything in the film has been ‘re-set’ to a value of 100—so some things are actually quieter (like the narration track), and other things are much louder (such as the background music tracks). I would say that the audio normalization feature is the culprit, but it shows to not even be enabled on the burn window.

[skier-hughes]

It is very odd that you can mux the audio tracks together to make a video file which plays fine, but when you burn a dvd somehow these become unmuxed and the levels change.
If you make a dvd mpeg2 file from the timeline with two or two hundred audio tracks, when you have your finished file you should only have one audio track.
This then shouldn't change.

Does the audio play wrong on both pc and dvd players?

What file type do you save your video as?
With what audio?
What happens if you save it as a different file type?
If you make an ISO or DVD folders using this new file does this play fine on your computer?
If you then burn a dvd with different software such as nero or Roxio etc using this ISO/dvd folders does this work ok?

[canuck]

Space Man,

are you really trying to put 3 movies, each movie 2 hours long, on a single standard DVD or is it 3 projects, each 2 hours long?

If the former then you will never get any watchable video. If the latter then you will have to reduce the bitrate to around 4000 kbps or less to fit on a DVD meant for only 60 minutes at best quality. Reducing the bitrate that much may well be causing all sorts of audio problems

[Space Man]

It is very odd that you can mux the audio tracks together to make a video file which plays fine, but when you burn a dvd somehow these become unmuxed and the levels change.

Yes—it is inexplicable.

Does the audio play wrong on both pc and dvd players?

Well, yes, once the DVD is burned, it has the messed-up sound on it no matter where you try to play it.

What file type do you save your video as?
With what audio?

Well, it’s however VS saves it when I select Share > create file > DVD (an MPEG, right?).

What happens if you save it as a different file type?

I haven’t tried this yet—what file type would you suggest I try? (and just do it under the “Custom” option, right?)

If you make an ISO or DVD folders using this new file does this play fine on your computer?]

Yes, it plays just fine—it’s only when I go to try and burn it to DVD that the sound problem appears.

If you then burn a dvd with different software such as nero or Roxio etc using this ISO/dvd folders does this work ok?

I haven’t tried this yet either; I’ve only used VS itself, so that I can put a menu on the DVDs.
___________________________________________

are you really trying to put 3 movies, each movie 2 hours long, on a single standard DVD or is it 3 projects, each 2 hours long?

Oh my goodness, no—sorry for the confusion. No, each film is intended to go to one (dual layer) DVD disc.
___________________________________________

If yes repeat the process Share Create Video File – DVD, from the save window choose Options and deselect Smart Render, again play the new Mpeg2 to test quality.

Okay, I found the Smart Render option (I’ve never had cause to open that option box before, so I didn’t know it existed) and de-selected it. What does Smart Render do?

[canuck]

If the iso file or the DVD folder set plays fine on your computer then there is nothing wrong with the video creation. You should burn the iso file or folder set to the DVD and see if you have the audio problems.

What make of DVD media are you using? Not all are of equal quality
Menus are created before you make the iso file or folder set

[skier-hughes]

What happens if you save it as a different file type?

I haven’t tried this yet—what file type would you suggest I try? (and just do it under the “Custom” option, right?)
Yes save it as anything. As it is going to end up as an SD mpeg file on a dvd, you could save it as a dv.avi, or a WMV, or an Mp4, better still do all three.

I would suggest using files of much shorter length to test, so make a ten minute movie, make your dvd in the normal manner. Test dvd plays in this odd manner.
Then use that 10 minute file to make your new files from.
Using these new files make your new dvds.

If you make an ISO or DVD folders using this new file does this play fine on your computer?]

Yes, it plays just fine—it’s only when I go to try and burn it to DVD that the sound problem appears.

As Canuck says, this is impossible really, as when you make the ISO, you mux the audio into one file.
This file works, you've told us so.
When you burn the dvd from this ISO or the DVD folders, all you are doing is copying 1's and 0's from one place to another. Nothing changes, so quite why it then doesn't work is a total mystery.

If you then burn a dvd with different software such as nero or Roxio etc using this ISO/dvd folders does this work ok?

I haven’t tried this yet either; I’ve only used VS itself, so that I can put a menu on the DVDs.

The menu should be on before you burn the ISO or dvd folders, they are part of it. I'm not sure you are making a proper ISO/DVD folders. Which did you make?
What did you play them on?

Then try different software to burn to a disc.

[lata]

Hi Space Man

A lot of info flying about here.

Quick summery

Once you have Burned the ISO you can play the file using VLC Media Player.
This will play the entire movie including all menus, just like playing a disc.

The Iso is an image of the disc, you can use Windows Disc Image Burner to burn the iso to disc. This process does not change the movie, simply copies it to disc.
So if it played ok using VLC it should play ok from the disc.

If you have quality issues when playing the disc then the problem is probably the hardware. Problems with the type of disc or disc burner itself.

You mentioned Dual layer discs, many users have problems using dual layer discs.
I did try using these types and gave up, I never managed to burn a disc that played successfully.

Consider burning to a single layer disc, yes you may have to reduce the length of the movie, but the process will test your hardware, that it does indeed burn correctly.
2 hours of video 4000kbps ish to create a file at 4.3 Gb to fit to disc.

Windows 7 will burn the iso…. from Windows Explorer right click the iso file and choose Open With -- Windows Disc Image Burner.

[Space Man]

I'm not sure you are making a proper ISO/DVD folders.

I first need to quickly pause and confess my utter ignorance with all things technical, but with the help of this discussion (http://forum.corel.com/EN/viewtopic.php ... es#p276787) I think I’m getting a better understanding of the difference between a video file, and an ISO file.

So, yes, the video files have all played just fine—and now that I think I understand how to make an ISO file (which I’ll do from the video file, right? That seems very circuitous to me), I’ll try that when time permits.

And if I can do it this way, everything should be fine…although I’d still love to understand why the sound issue comes up when just trying to burn a disc from the project in the timeline—which seems a lot smoother and less complicated than the process of: make video file, make ISO from video file, go to different software program to burn ISO onto DVD.

[canuck]

What may appear to you as less smooth and more complicated is actually the preferred method for many of us when creating a DVD, especially when you have an involved video project. It will save you a lot of coaster!

First creating a video file can tell you if you have any problems in your video project before doing any burn. When burning directly to DVD and it fails then you cannot always tell whether the problem is with the rendering or with the burning. Using the multi-step method separates the rendering process from the burning process.
Actually first creating the iso file and then burning the iso file to DVD does not really involve much more time.

[skier-hughes]

I'm not sure you are making a proper ISO/DVD folders.

I first need to quickly pause and confess my utter ignorance with all things technical, but with the help of this discussion (http://forum.corel.com/EN/viewtopic.php ... es#p276787) I think I’m getting a better understanding of the difference between a video file, and an ISO file.

So, yes, the video files have all played just fine—and now that I think I understand how to make an ISO file (which I’ll do from the video file, right? That seems very circuitous to me), I’ll try that when time permits.

And if I can do it this way, everything should be fine…although I’d still love to understand why the sound issue comes up when just trying to burn a disc from the project in the timeline—which seems a lot smoother and less complicated than the process of: make video file, make ISO from video file, go to different software program to burn ISO onto DVD.

We are trying to ascertain where the problem lies, so we may have to try many more circuitous routes before we get there.
Once we have a working model, we back track to find which method then becomes the easiest to produce the end result.
We need to remove certain parts from the equation to rule them out.
ISO/dvd folders are very good for testing that all is working fine before wasting money burning a dvd disc.
You can also save this ISO/dvd folder for burning more discs later, useful if you aren't sure how many you want.

You need to have a player that will play ISO files or dvd folders, so may be a bit more googling will tell you if what you have installed will work or not.

Don't worry about not knowing things, we all started at one time or another, please ask for clarification if you are unsure of instructions or suggestions. I was at a meeting yesterday with a head of a special school and I had to stop her after about two minutes and say, sorry, but I haven't a clue what all these acronyms you are using stand for, I can guess, but if I guess wrong I may have a totally misrepresented understanding of what you want to achieve

[lata]

Hi Space Man

Yep there is a lot going on, but we split the process into sections to allow us to test each process and ultimately find problems.

A standard DVD disc used Mpeg2 files to burn to disc, it has to use Mpeg2 files.
You have to create those Mpeg2 files.

You can do that via Share Create Video File or allow the burner module to do it for you, after hitting the “Burn” button the process starts with Convert Title, this process is creating the Mpeg2 file. It take time to create.

If you have already created the mpeg2 file the burn process starts with Convert Menu, there is no Convert Title, not required as you are already using your mpeg2 file.
Less time to complete.

And because you have played the Mpeg2 you are sure of the quality, which should be the same on disc.

We then ask you to Create a Disc Image, from the last page select “Create Disc Image” deselect Create to Disc. Saves on making those coasters.......

That process creates an ISO file.

I use VCL Media Player to play these files, it will play the file as playing a disc menu and all.
So that plays ok

I burn the ISO to disc, some versions of Video Studio can do this, Tools – Burn from Disc Image (ISO) unfortunately not X4.
However Windows 7 can do that, from Windows Explorer right click the iso and choose Open With – Windows Disc Image Burner.

Burning speeds, always choose the slowest burning speeds, that is if you have the choice, some disc types do not give a choice.

My Quick Guides (link below) show a list, a workflow written a while ago similar to

1 / edit project
2 / Share - Create Video File DVD—creates an Mpeg2 (may need to modify properties for your needs)
3 / New Project – Share Create disc – add video file made in 2
4 / Create the menu
5 / Create Disc Image
6 / Burn Iso to disc.

[Space Man]

Update (short version): Success! Thank you, everyone, for all the help!

Update (long version): I had a encountered a few hurdles in finding a program that would burn the ISO files onto a DVD; Windows acted like it was doing something, but only produced discs that had “no content” on them. I tried one free program off the internet, and it said it encountered a “hardware error” and stopped working. Finally, I settled on ImgBurn, and was able to get working DVDs of all three films—without the sound problem.

Oddly, though, at some point, the films seemed to have gotten further compressed; for instance, one of the films was 128 minutes long, but when ImgBurn was preparing to burn it, it advised me that the project was short enough to put on a regular DVD (and not the dual layer disc that I had started with). That seemed weird, since the regular DVD discs say they are only up to 120 minutes…but, you know what? I have the finished DVD discs now, and they don’t possess the sound problem that I described in my initial plea for help—so, I’m satisfied; the quality seems good enough, and whereas I initially thought I would never be able to put the films on DVD at all, it is an acceptable trade-off.

I still kinda wish I understood what the caused the problem in the first place, but I suppose it doesn’t much matter now that I found a work-around that achieved the desired results…

A huge “thank you” to all of you who helped me out—I was really at the end of my rope at the time, and your assistance enabled me to move forward. I will be forever grateful!

[lata]

Hi Space Man

Thanks for the feedback and happy you managed to burn a good disc.
You can fit 120 minutes to a single layer disc if the video is created using a data rate of approx 4000kbps, this would reduce the quality to maybe VHS quality.
Obviously playing on a large HD screen would be pretty poor.

As for why, I would suspect a corrupt video file, seems strange that several Iso burners had problems, only to be successful after converting the video using Image Burn.

Hopefully next time will go without problems.