X6 - Workspace colour and other gripes...

[brucet]

I'm not sure I grasp 100% of this thread so I may be firing a blank here!!!
To my way of thinking making the ASP External Editor option more user friendly would be the simplest way of going. That way ASP could be fully developed and updated with only minor changes/updates to the External Editor UI. Of course promoting and facilitating PSP as the External Editor would make sense. Like wise in PSP in the RAW conversion stage there could be an option to have ASP as an External Raw converter.

Then if Corel made a package option that, for a good price, included both ASP and PSP, there would be a workflow option that would cover many bases.

Or am I still missing the point?

regards

[photodrawken]

brucet,
You've got the point, and I like your suggestion about an option to specify an external RAW editor. I hadn't thought of that, but if the option allowed specifying any RAW editor, that would be an excellent addition to PSP and solve all of the issues discussed here.

[Tadjio]

It's good to see your comments on the X6 workspace, Howard. Hopefully the addition of 5 Background Colours helps somewhat. I find this, coupled with the 2 Workspace Colours, is workable at least for Tabbed Documents but there is room for improvement.

I would like to support you on your gripe about the top line of the screen. Corel have indeed made it too large (especially compared with X5). The wording "Corel PaintShop Pro X6" is too big and there is indeed spare space above "Manage/Adjust/Edit".
For what it's worth, I actually get the same size images with "Fit to Window" in both X5 and X6, mainly because Corel have reduced the height of the status line at the bottom.

For me, another issue with the top line of the screen is with the Min/Max/Close buttons. Ever since X4 I have complained that they are too small and too close together. They are not to the Microsoft standard used in most other programs. This means that if you want to Minimize or Close a whole lot of programs using the mouse and hardly looking, PSP is out of line!
This gap has been slightly increased from X5 to X6 but I see no reason why it shouldn't be standard (even with the extra Corel Icon).

I will write separately about RAW Conversion as it is confusing to mix that discussion here.

[MarkZ]

I agree that ideally ASP and PSP work together as the RAW processor and the jpg or compressed file editor. Currently there is a hand-off from ASP to PSP in that one can select in ASP to use an external editor, which can be specified in preferences as PSP (or another editor) and ASP opens PSP with a TIF file exported from it. I suppose the opposite could be set up so that if you are in Manage mode in PSP you could select a RAW image and choose to have it edited/processed in ASP before passing it back to PSP as jpg or TIF. I can see the two programs more intertwined but I cannot imagine ASP having the look and feel of PSP or vice versa. As pointed out earlier, even now the RAW editor in PSP opens like a different program although it is similar to Adjust mode.

ASP is a non-destructive editor using xmp files to store all the editing information. I think that should not interfere with the exchanges as files passed would be in compressed format and xmp and RAW files could be stored as at present.

[Tadjio]

I can see the two programs more intertwined but I cannot imagine ASP having the look and feel of PSP or vice versa. As pointed out earlier, even now the RAW editor in PSP opens like a different program although it is similar to Adjust mode.
ASP is a non-destructive editor using xmp files to store all the editing information.

I think it is very important to stress the fundamental difference between the way PSP and ASP each operate.

In PSP every change is applied immediately (unless undone) and it is not possible to go back and change your mind on earlier edits.

With ASP the changes are only applied to the image displayed. It is possible to adjust earlier changes at any time.
It is only when you 'output' a file usually as a JPG that all the changes are applied as a 'pipeline' of functions in a pre-determined order.
ASP can still use the XMP file to enable you to go back and make further changes even after the program is closed. The original image is never altered.

This is why the look and feel is very different and why the two programs' workspaces are so dissimilar.

[brucet]

I'm sure those using ASP are well aware of the differences between destructive and non destructive editing. Also the use of xmp files. My point is that anyone starting to work with Raw files will more than likely use the converter in PSP. Those at the next level of Raw work would move onto a dedicated Raw editor. So making ASP and PSP more co-operative need not be an issue. In reality nothing need change. All that is required is a minor modification of the UI in both programs. Simply a matter of making the use of external programs easier and more obvious. Those external programs would ideally be Corel products but not exclusively.

So rather than digging into the Edit menu in ASP to find the External Editor, Corel would/could place a button/short cut on the Tool Bar. How hard could that be?
A simple task that would make ASP and PSP 'seem' more seamless! Marketing trickery I think they call it.
Sell the two as a package.

regards

[sheilsoft]

Interesting... But to be honest, getting back to my original comments... I'm not bothered about cross-app integration. I'm quite happy having a PSP RAW front-end using The RAWlab dialog, then continuing onto edit with PSP, much in the same way Photoshop does with ACR.

I'm just asking that a few further tweaks be made to RAWlab, to allow a more standard first conversion, as per other front-ends, such as the inclusion of an exposure compensation slider and highlights/shadows sliders. If these were available, along with the current WB adjustment, it would be enough for most. If I needed a more in depth set of tweaks, I'd probably revert to my camera brand software (Capture) or Lightroom 4/5, which IMHO is streets ahead of ASP (... Waits for death threats!).

Just keep it simple guys... A couple of tweaks and we're nearly there.
(Apart from binning all those outdated effects! )

Rgds,
Howard

[Dizzie]

The wording "Corel PaintShop Pro X6" is too big and there is indeed spare space above "Manage/Adjust/Edit".

I felt the same way at first but I soon discovered I could use that wasted space to park Toolbars across there. I think I may like it better.

[Tadjio]

I felt much better when I realised I could move all the Icons I use from the Standard Toolbar up into the Main Toolbar line and then close the Standard Toolbar.
This saves lots of valuable real-estate especially vertically, which is at a premium with modern wide screens.

[LindaSue]

I felt much better when I realised I could move all the Icons I use from the Standard Toolbar up into the Main Toolbar line and then close the Standard Toolbar.
This saves lots of valuable real-estate especially vertically, which is at a premium with modern wide screens.

That's a nice tip to know. I never thought of doing that. However, be very careful if you customize the menu bar in that manner in earlier versions of PSP. In earlier versions, such as PSP8 and PSP9, the menu bar changes depending on whether or not you have an image open in the workspace. If you put tool icons on the menu bar without having an open image, those icons won't be there when you do open one. And, the icons that you moved won't be available on the Standard toolbar any longer if you moved them to the menu bar. Apparently you'd have to customize the menu bar in both modes separately.

[Joelle]

I felt much better when I realised I could move all the Icons I use from the Standard Toolbar up into the Main Toolbar line and then close the Standard Toolbar.
This saves lots of valuable real-estate especially vertically, which is at a premium with modern wide screens.

Have done this for years (forever),
All the toolbars are at the top, nothing on the left, much easier to work with.Custom menus with most used settings tied to icons are bliss.
Eat your heart out Photoshop

I would like to post a screenshot of the layout, but this site doesn't allow anything wider than 950 pixels ;-(

Joëlle

[MarkZ]

All the toolbars are at the top, nothing on the left, much easier to work with.Custom menus with most used settings tied to icons are bliss.
Eat your heart out Photoshop

I would like to post a screenshot of the layout, but this site doesn't allow anything wider than 950 pixels ;-(

Joëlle

Joelle:

Resize your screenshot to 950 pixels and show us, please.

[Joelle]

All the toolbars are at the top, nothing on the left, much easier to work with.Custom menus with most used settings tied to icons are bliss.
Eat your heart out Photoshop

I would like to post a screenshot of the layout, but this site doesn't allow anything wider than 950 pixels ;-(

Joëlle

Joelle:

Resize your screenshot to 950 pixels and show us, please.

Hehe, if you can see what's on it, your eyes are a lot better than mine

Joëlle

[Dizzie]

Great screenshot Joelle, thanks for showing us. It really is a matter of personal preferences. I have Toolbars all around because I'd rather do a one-click than move both hands to use a keyboard shortcut. Although my hand would probably wish I'd move it from the mouse more often...LOL

[MarkZ]

Hehe, if you can see what's on it, your eyes are a lot better than mine

Joëlle

Thanks Joelle. When I open the image in a separate tab it shows full size so I can see what you have done. It is interesting to see others' solutions.