ASP print on Linux / Epson 3880

[springm]

Hi all,
I got hold of an Epson 3880, and now I'd like to know what is a reasonable way to print to it from Linux, where I run my ASP for all my raw conversion/editing tasks.

So far I tried:
* print to cups - greyscales clearly show color casts in spite of trying to load the correct paper ICC in ASP and print to a raw queue on linux
* create a 16bit ProPhotoRGB tif in ASP and print this through XNView in a windows virtual box with the paper profile loaded into the epson printer driver: No color casts, but I don't know if this queue makes full use of 16bit data or just quietly discards it.

What I could image is:
* Print to a PDF in ASP while using the paper profile and print this from a virtualbox windows
* Print from ASP/windows to a samba printer of a virtualbox windows

Now I am really curious what would be the gold standard in printing from windows to a printer like the Epson 3880

---Markus

[afx]

On Linux get Turboprint Studio (http://www.printfab.net/).
Makes life much easier when printing images on Linux.

On Windows I use QImage Beats everything else...

cheers
afx

[benoit]

What I could image is:
* Print to a PDF in ASP while using the paper profile and print this from a virtualbox windows
---Markus

I am using the pdf output from ASP but I have one output queue dedicated by paper/printer combination. In the output queue I use the profile I generated for the specific paper/printer. The pdf is good to check the layout before actually sending to printer, and also ALL conversions are done so the 8bit/16bit question is no more important.
I then send the pdf file to the right turboprint printer (set up with no color profiling) and the result is fine and easy to print again (but only on the same printer/paper combination for sure - I keep the pdf for reference)
Benoit

[afx]

and also ALL conversions are done so the 8bit/16bit question is no more important.

So you are basically compressing color before going to the print driver. Not really a good way to maintain maximum gamut.
I strongly suggest to send 16bit ProPhoto tiffs to TurboPrint.
See also http://www.afximages.com/articles.php?a ... lorProfile

cheers
afx

[springm]

On Linux get Turboprint Studio (http://www.printfab.net/).
Makes life much easier when printing images on Linux.

But I guess you use a custom profile here, too - or does the vendor provide paper profile work? I don't mind spending some € on turboprint, but if I still would have to get every paper profiled individually, it doesn't help too much.

On Windows I use QImage Beats everything else...

I've read about that. It's not a rip but more an intelligent image on paper positioner plus a up/downscaler.
If I really have to, I don't mid using a canned windows, but of course a native Linux solution would be really nice.

---Markus

[afx]

But I guess you use a custom profile here, too - or does the vendor provide paper profile work?

Nowadays custom profiles are rarely needed, vendor profiles work just fine unless you really want to squeeze out the last bit from a print, then you have to start with custom profiles (and large numbers of patches).
It's been a while since I examined TurboPrint, and as far as I remember you can assign any profile you want (at least in the Studio version, I think that was the key reason to use Studio and not Pro).

On Windows I use QImage Beats everything else...

I've read about that. It's not a rip but more an intelligent image on paper positioner plus a up/downscaler.

Yes, but it makes printing so much easier. Upscaling and handling paper position works very well. It just saves time compared to all other solutions I ever tried.
For example, it remembers profile/paper setting associations and you can define a myriad of settings profiles to quickly switch between paper/size/layout combinations. Or you can adjust crops on the fly without having to regen images.

So QImage is a printing app, whereas TurboPrint is a glorified driver. But on each of the specific platforms, I would consider them indispensable.

cheers
afx

[benoit]

and also ALL conversions are done so the 8bit/16bit question is no more important.

So you are basically compressing color before going to the print driver. Not really a good way to maintain maximum gamut.
I strongly suggest to send 16bit ProPhoto tiffs to TurboPrint.
See also http://www.afximages.com/articles.php?a ... lorProfile

cheers
afx

thanks for your article, I read it some time ago and again now following your remark. I understand your point but my understanding is :
- I should not have clipping on the data sent to the printer because turboprint and the printer do not have to transform the data already profiled by ASP in the pdf file.
- I should not have posterization as 8 bit should be enough for the printer color space that is not so big ...

But I now have a doubt because I did not check the way the pdf is color coded (8 bits ? color space ?)

This side discussion is not exactly in line with the original question of springm, but could be of some use if he wants to keep a linux only workflow and to use the possibilities of ASP (print queue with layouts that can generate pdf files) without having some limitations/bugs of the direct interface between ASP and printing drivers.

benoit

[afx]

- I should not have clipping on the data sent to the printer because turboprint and the printer do not have to transform the data already profiled by ASP in the pdf file.

Yes. You get the mangling already when doing the PDF into 8bit sRGB (Printers have a wider gamut than sRGB).

- I should not have posterization as 8 bit should be enough for the printer color space that is not so big ...

That depends....

But I now have a doubt because I did not check the way the pdf is color coded (8 bits ? color space ?)

Yup, your PDF will have 8bit images and usually sRGB (the profile can actually be set in AS, but setting a wide one for 8 bit images is not really a good idea, I consider Adobe RGB the max for 8bits/channel). Much smaller than what the printer can do.

This side discussion is not exactly in line with the original question of springm, but could be of some use if he wants to keep a linux only workflow and to use the possibilities of ASP (print queue with layouts that can generate pdf files) without having some limitations/bugs of the direct interface between ASP and printing drivers.

As a wider gamut or fine gradations are not always necessary, the PPF solution might be useful.
It really depends on image content.

cheers
afx

[benoit]

Yup, your PDF will have 8bit images and usually sRGB

I just checked and my ASP print queue as the color profile set for the printer/paper specific home made profile, but the pdf is 8bit sRGB colorspace as you said

As a wider gamut or fine gradations are not always necessary, the PPF solution might be useful.
It really depends on image content.

I compared my workflow to a few other options (including a windows virtual box using Canon 9500mkii drivers and supplied profiles, and also pdf in sRGB profile from ASP sent to turboprint with profile conversion in turboprint).
I was quite satisfied when comparing skin tones in studio or natural light (accurate color, natural look and smooth gradient).
Most probably this workflow will not be perfect when the original scene would need a large gamut, but I don't think I loose fine gradations.

[springm]

Nowadays custom profiles are rarely needed, vendor profiles work just fine unless you really want to squeeze out the last bit from a print, then you have to start with custom profiles (and large numbers of patches).
It's been a while since I examined TurboPrint, and as far as I remember you can assign any profile you want (at least in the Studio version, I think that was the key reason to use Studio and not Pro).

Hmm, got Turboprint Studio, added the ProPhotoRGB color space, added the Ilford Paper Profile, set everything else to neutral/default, but got a really ugly greyscale ASP test print (ProPhotoRGB colorspace selected in the printing dialogue) with artifacts and a magenta cast - while a print of the same file under windows was perfectly neutral.

That leaves me completely clueless... considering now to install ASP in the VirtualBoxWin, too, and use that to print.

---Markus

[hannes_hab]

did you contact turboprint support or the turboprint forum?
maybe try:
http://zedonet.com/de_shop_tp_profile.phtml
(Note: the profile will be created for the dynamic color management of PrintFab and TurboPrint drivers - it is not a standard ICC profile)

[afx]

Yeah, I'd check the Turboprint forum and Support.
My results where absolutely fine compared to Windows, so I guess there is some setting wrong.

cheers
afx

[benoit]

Hmm, got Turboprint Studio, added the ProPhotoRGB color space, added the Ilford Paper Profile, set everything else to neutral/default, but got a really ugly greyscale ASP test print (ProPhotoRGB colorspace selected in the printing dialogue) with artifacts and a magenta cast - while a print of the same file under windows was perfectly neutral.
---Markus

When you say 'same file in window' does it mean a tiff file or the same input file in ASP (does not mean ASP send the same thing to the driver)
A first check that there is no other setting problem could be :
1/ choose a reference tif file in sRGB
2/ print using the turboprint gimp plugin (easy to check the setting for printing) and the Ilford supplied icc
3/ You should get a good quality print very very close to what you get with windows driver using the same icc profile (either at application or driver level)

I just check : my printer profiling patterns generated using Argyll are tif file in sRGB colorspace : I am not sure the profile will be able to handle conversion from a bigger colorspace, and I have the same doubt concerning the ilford provided icc profile.
Maybe afx you know if its OK to use a profile prepared for sRGB on a ProPhotoRGB image ?
Benoit

[afx]

Maybe afx you know if its OK to use a profile prepared for sRGB on a ProPhotoRGB image ?

When you create profiles with Argyll, you can specify a source profile. I have not make any experiments with that, I just set it to ProPhoto...
Theoretically this should help in the profile conversion, but I have no idea how big the impact is.

cheers
afx