X6 : 1080 24/50/60p Questions

[jmone]

I see the support for AVC 1080/24/50/60p has improved greatly since I last looked (and have now upgraded to X6 as a result). The 'non intuitive' things I have worked out so far is:
- How to change the TImeline to the correct # of Frames (in conjunction with "Settings --> Enable 50/60p editing" option is the combination with "Settings --> Project Properties --> Edit --> Corel VideoStudio --> TV Standard" and "Settings --> Project Properties --> Edit --> General --> Frame rate" where depending on your combination can get frame accurate timeline at 24, 25, 30, 50, and 60 fps.
- How to Create a Movie Template using a sample file 1080/50p to create a profile with a data rate such as 26000kbps

So I can import, edit and output any combination of frame rates as a file.

My Questions: What I can not work out is under the Create Disk option to select (or use Disk Template to create) a Profile for:
- Blu-Ray at 23.796/24p profile
- AVCHD 50p profile (note: I know there is no BD 50p std but AVCHD Ver 2 supports this 50p and VS allows you to select to burn to media but only seems to do AVCHD Ver 1 for writing).

In both cases the Frame Type only shows "UFF" and "LFF" and no "Frame" option & the Frame Rate is greyed out.

Thanks
Nathan

[Kingston]

VideoStudio will burn an AVCHD which is 1920 x 1080 / 24p (23.976) without recompressing it. It only multiplexes it. You only have to create the video file first with VideoStudio using Share > Create Video File...

After creating the file, start a new project and put the file just created on the timeline. Then you can go Share > Create Disc > AVCHD. You don't need to specify anything else or create a new Disc Template. In fact if you try something, VS may decide you want the video recompressed. I guess a menu is allowed.

I haven't tried other frame rates for AVCHD or any of Blu-ray.

[Kingston]

Oops. I made a mistake in the previous post. I failed to mention that first I created a Make Movie Template (under Settings) for a 1920 x 1080 24p AVCHD.

And you don't need to put anything on the timeline before you go Share > Create Disc. If you do, then you will have to delete the thumbnail in the burn module anyway.

You need to manually add the video clip to the burn module by using the "Add video file" (first icon) option at the top of the burn module. I think that may be the key, manually adding it that way. I tried burning by keeping the existing thumbnail, but VS recompressed everything.

[jmone]

Thanks - Oddly that works for creating 23.976p disks. Does not work with 50p however.

[Ken Berry]

AVCHD 50p profile (note: I know there is no BD 50p std but AVCHD Ver 2 supports this 50p and VS allows you to select to burn to media but only seems to do AVCHD Ver 1 for writing).

I am not quite sure what you are referring to when you say "for writing"... Do you mean "writing to disc" or "writing to a new file"? If the latter, have you made a template in Make Movie Templates Manager using the Add feature?

If not, you go to Settings > Make Movie Templates Manager. A dialogue box appears. Ignore the 'New' button at the top, and instead, click on the Add button at the bottom. A new box appears which is somewhat unhelpful. Click on the button '...' beside the 'File Path' window. This will enable you to navigate to a video clip which has the properties you are wanting in your template e.g. 50/60p and bitrate of, say, 26 Mbps. Select that clip, and its path will then appear in the File Path window. Then give the template a name in the bottom window. Click out of those two dialogue boxes. Next time you want to produce a video with those specific properties, choose Share > Create Video File > and in the drop down menu choose the name you gave to the new template.

Note, however, that this type of template cannot be edited. It will only produce exactly the properties of the linked file. If you try to edit it, the template will revert to standard def DVD, and you will need to start all over again.

[jmone]

Thanks Ken,
Yes I can create the a 50P 26Mbps file template just fine.

I wanted to know if I could create a AVCHD 50P 26Mbps V2 File Structure under the Create Disk module (well for either the AVCHD and SD Card (Menu). eg all 50p AVC camcorders will record it's content to the approved AVCHD 50P 26Mbps V2 File Structure standard. It just seems X6 can not. I spent a bit of time with a Hex editor and created a compliant profile in this area but it encoder errors out unfortunately.:

[Ken Berry]

Well unfortunately, there is another international standard for AVCHD "hybrid" discs burnt to standard DVDs. And that specifies a maximum bitrate of 18 mbps. So the answer to your question is 'no'...

Given that a single layer disc burnt at 18 Mbps will only contain about 20 minutes of video (plus menu), upping the bitrate would significant reduce the amount of video you could burn to a DVD, making it virtually useless for anything much over 10 or 12 minutes.

[jmone]

There absolutely is a spec for the creation of AVCHD V2 structures to "Built-in Media / SD Cards" etc. http://www.avchd-info.org/format/ and it has been around for years as this is what these Camcoders do when writing out their content to HDD and/or SD Cards. My TM700 has not probs with recording in AVCHD format to both it's HDD and SD card.

All I want to do is confirm if X6 supports the same Official AVCHD V2 spec for creating these structures to HDD and SD Cards (to take advantage of a menu to navigate the content). To me X6 seems to have all of the building blocks in place as it can
- Create high bit rate AVC/H.264 1080/50 or 60p files
- Create AVCHD structures to HDD or SD Cards

.... but this version does not seem to ne able combine the two to create AVCHD V2 structures (well I can not work it out if it can).

Thanks
Nathan

PS - I've deliberately stayed away from comments on "Burning" to BD / DVD even though there are many players (including the PC, PS3 and Standalone BD devices) that will play AVCHD V2 from such media even though such a combination is not explicitly supported by the specification. Devices advertising AVCHD V2 playback would be expected to support such playback from SD Cards if they included a slot in their player.

[jmone]

I'm expecting the answer is simply "No - X6 does not currently support creating AVCHD V2, only AVCHD V1" not "There is no spec for them to follow".

[Ken Berry]

I'm now getting just a little confused. A few posts above, you said:

Yes I can create the a 50P 26Mbps file template just fine.

Doesn't this answer your question? You can create and playback AVCHD 2.0 videos using your 50P 26 Mbps Custom Template on Video Studio X5 and X6, and copying them to HDD, external HDD, USB stick drive and SD cards. I regularly burn such files to external HDD and USB stick drives and plug them into my PlayStation 3 connected via HDMI to my HDTV which handles them perfectly well.

If you mean does VS have an obvious setting to produce AVCHD 2.0 videos, then the answer is NO. But I guess it is just semantics after that whether the alternative, opaque method of creating the AVCHD 2.0 Custom template is a direct, if less obvious, means of achieving what you are after. But the bottom line is that YES, VS *can* produce AVCHD 2.0 videos.

Or have I missed your point yet again?

[jmone]

Yup - we are talking of two different standards, one for file creation and one for structure creation.

File Formats: X6 can create a range of different file formats including support for H.264/MPEG-4 AVC with profiles such as 1920x1080 @ 24, 50i, 50p, 60i, 60p even the newer 4K stuff. Outlines of these profiles are be found at - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.264/MPEG-4_AVC . There is no issue creating a compliant H.264/MPEG-4 AVC 1920x0180 at 23.976p, 24p, 50i, 50p or 60i 60p file. I use this all the time on my HTPC as my preferred format for single clips.

Structure Formats: X6 can also create a range of structures (under the Create Disk option) including support for AVCHD. This specification (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVCHD) outlines a whole range of standards for what the folder structure has to be, naming conventions, menus, chapter marks in additional to what video and audio formats are acceptable. The AVCHD V1 standard allows for the inclusion of a subset of H.264/MPEG-4 AVC compliant files such as 1920x0180 at 24p, 50i or 60i. AVCHD V2 expanded the specification to include additional H.264/MPEG-4 AVC compliant profiles for 1920x1080 at 50p or 60p.

The benefit of creating a compliant AVCHD V2 is you can keep your 1080/50 or 60p footage yet retain the menus, navigation etc we are used to with other formats that X6 supports (such as BD, DVD, or AVCHD V1).

Here is a pic from another product that supports AVCHD V2 output. It even creates a warning stream in 1920x0180 at 23.976p for players that do not support AVCHD V2 (eg TMT triggers this stream).

[jmone]

If you mean does VS have an obvious setting to produce AVCHD 2.0 videos, then the answer is NO. But I guess it is just semantics after that whether the alternative, opaque method of creating the AVCHD 2.0 Custom template is a direct, if less obvious, means of achieving what you are after. But the bottom line is that YES, VS *can* produce AVCHD 2.0 videos.

I think this statement is not accurate as it mixes the two different spec together. To be clear I'm now reasonably confident in my statement that

while X6 can produce H.264/MPEG-4 AVC files that are compliant with a AVCHD V2.0 structure, the "Disk" burning module only supports AVCHD V1.0.

This means that if you use the AVCHD option, X6 will re-encode your 50 or 60p H.264/MPEG-4 AVC files to 23.976, 50i, or 60i

Happy to be proven wrong!

Thanks
Nathan

PS - In checking the Disk "profiles" that ship with X6, they were all created in August 2011 and while V2 was out by then it would have been a very quick turnaround.

[Ken Berry]

OK. I think I now understand what you are getting at. And you are of course right that VS cannot yet produce AVCHD structures such as you describe, including principally a menu. This hasn't much bothered me, though, since personally I find the listing of the video clip names on the external drive by my PS3 to be an acceptable -- though admittedly far from glitzy -- substitute.

[jmone]

For my own use the H.264/MPEG-4 AVC files 50p files are great (I import and tag them up on the HTPC's). But sometimes you just want distribute a bunch to family/friends and this is where the AVCHD or BD Structure option is great as you get a nice little menu for navigation and X6 does this well. For now it looks like if you want a 50 or 60p version (AVCHD V2.0) then then the other video editing package I took the screen shot is currently the only option I know that will do this (I'm done trying to hack X6 disc profiles!).