Combining different video formats in a project

[skier-hughes]

I make the assumption that one cannot simply drag clips from different cameras with vastly different video file properties into the one timeline, edit them, and output to a single format.
The responses in this thread suggest that original video files from multiple sources must first be converted to a 'common' format and then they can be combined for editing.
Its deciding what is the best 'common' format based on the input files that I cannot work out.
It depends on what the output is, if it's an SD DVD, I would downconvert all my files to SD, edit those in one go and output as the SD file. It isn't the only way, maybe not the best way. I haven't done it since I've had my new I7 pc with SSD so if you have a powerful pc iy may not need converting until the end of the project, as the pc manages to cope with the demands put upon it. I do a lot of conversion work for clients, but generally they are supplying one type, so it may be a Betamax tape, VHS or cine!!! Rarely do they give me a mixture of HD and SD
Ive learnt that you can make things bigger which astounded me. I can take a 720x576 and convert it to a 1280x720 without losing quality.
You can't do it without losing quality, but if you perceive the quality loss to be, acceptable, minimal or non existent that's good. Different TV's will also display different files in different ways, an old fashioned CRT screen is still the best for display quality, upscaling a 703x576 SD file to fit a 1920x1080 tv may give best results by allowing the tv or dvd player upscaler to do the job, as they are matched to the unit you are using, but sometimes you may find upscaling via the editing programme gives best results. This really is trial and error. An editing programme will work best when dealing with several file types, whereas the dvd upscaler may work best when fed with a constant SD file.
And I can apparently convert a 25fps into a 50fps. None of this makes sense but it seems to work.
25fps, is in fact 50 half frames per second, as you get upper and lower fields displayed, which helps with motion distortion, ie a car driving through the shot, so changing to a progressive 50 full frames per second is not that big of a change in video terms.
It also appears that the best 'common' format is 'frame based'. i.e. that if any input files have lower or upper first, that these should always be converted to 'frame based' or 'progressive'. (unless of course each original file format has the same property. e.g. all are lower.). In my case, one was 'frame based' and the other was 'lower'. So the lower needs to be converted to frame based.
Depends on output format, if it's a SD dvd I wouldn't convert it to frame based.

As to the ultimate destination - in my case its either tv or youtube. So do I assume I cannot do HD as one of my video files is not HD?

You can do HD, you can upscale the SD file, if you are going to make a BluRay disc, because you have a Bluray player, then you will need to.

Thanks again

David Z

[lata]

Hi David

You should be able to add both HD and SD clips to the timeline for editing

For YouTube I would convert the project to mpeg4 using the Upload To Web option.
That will use Mpeg4 frame based 1280 x 720.

You mention for TV, are you intending to burn a DVD Disc, if so HD or SD.

For SD the HD would be downscaled to Mpeg2 DVD standard, yes frame based may be the best option, but I would also try Lower Field.

The duration of the HD and SD clips may determine your choice, if you have more SD footage then try Lower Field.

Use Make Movie Templates Manager to create a few templates, use these to test your renders to view and compare quality.

As a test using a short Dv-Avi clip render to Upload to Web, this should create a good quality video.

[dmz]

Hi David

You should be able to add both HD and SD clips to the timeline for editing

For YouTube I would convert the project to mpeg4 using the Upload To Web option.
That will use Mpeg4 frame based 1280 x 720.

You mention for TV, are you intending to burn a DVD Disc, if so HD or SD.

For SD the HD would be downscaled to Mpeg2 DVD standard, yes frame based may be the best option, but I would also try Lower Field.

The duration of the HD and SD clips may determine your choice, if you have more SD footage then try Lower Field.

Use Make Movie Templates Manager to create a few templates, use these to test your renders to view and compare quality.

As a test using a short Dv-Avi clip render to Upload to Web, this should create a good quality video.

OK this confuses me. I thought I have to convert two or more different videos to a standard format before putting them together in a project and editing them. Yet "You should be able to add both HD and SD clips to the timeline for editing" this doesnt make sense. How can I add " lower field" and "frame based" video files in the same project and expect to render them to a decent quality?
The other bit is that I thought that given that one of my clips is not HD, I cannot make the final output HD.

I thank you for all your responses but I am still very unclear as to how one combines different video formats to create the best quality output.
My first assumption was always that one had to downsize to the least video format specs. Some have suggested in this thread that it is not so , but some say it is. I have one SD and one HD and still am not clear whether I can get a HD final output.
One question that Ive been asked is what is your output? I guess the answer to that is the same as anyone would answer. I want to see the best quality on my TV and also on youtube.
I still dont know what I need to do to combine different video formats to get the best result on TV and dont even know whether HD is possible given one of my video formats is not HD. It just doesnt sound possible.

Thanks

[lata]

Hi David

You said “How can I add " lower field" and "frame based" video files in the same project and expect to render them to a decent quality?”

Have you tried?

When we ask what your final output is going to be, we are asking if you intend to burn a disc or video for the internet, each uses different settings, however we would like to retain as much of the originals as possible.

If you intend to burn a standard DVD then the final output has to be Mpeg2.

Your DV-Avi from the Mini DV camera lends themselves very nicely to being converted to Mpeg2.

If you wish to burn the HD to standard DVD then the hd has to be converted/downsized to Mpeg2.

As for interlacing we would like to retain at least one original field order.
Adding a HD and SD to the timeline should not be a problem, you edit then choose to create a video file selecting either Frame Based or Lower Field.

If the two field orders were Upper and Lower, not Frame Based then there may be an impact on quality. But Lower Field to Frame Based should not cause problems.

Try it…………

Using Make Movie Templates Manager create a Mpeg2 template to these settings:-

MPEG files
24 bits, 720 x 576, 25 fps
Lower Field First
(DVD-PAL), 16:9
Video data rate: 8000 kbps
Audio data rate: 256 kbps
Dolby Digital Audio, 48 KHz, 2/0(L,R)

Now create another using Frame Based instead of Lower Field

Start a new project add a DV-Avi and a HD video.
Render to each template, play the resultant files to test quality.
Both files will be suitable for burning a DVD, which you use is your choice, obviously the one you feel is the best quality.
You may have to burn the disc and play on the tv before your final decision. Frame Based or Lower filed, playback on the pc may look ok compared to TV playback.

------------------------------
For the internet render to Upload to the Web option will use these settings, internet uses frame based

MPEG-4 Files
24 bits, 1280 x 720, 25 fps
Frame-based
H.264 Main Profile Video: 5000 Kbps
44100 Hz, 16 Bit, Stereo
MPEG AAC Audio: 128 Kbps

The DV-Avi clips will be converted to Mp4 using Frame Based.

[dmz]

Thank you all. You have been most kind and patient.
I have one other project which I need to create from two different file formats.

The following comes from my Canon 550d:

Code: Select all

Complete name                            : F:\Video\source files\2013\2013-07-06\2013-07-06 09-53-17-estrade-going on.MOV
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : QuickTime
Codec ID                                 : qt  
File size                                : 172 MiB
Duration                                 : 44s 461ms
Overall bit rate                         : 32.4 Mbps
Encoded date                             : UTC 2013-07-06 07:53:17
Tagged date                              : UTC 2013-07-06 07:53:17
CNTH                                     : Áfݶ\9`~ლc<1yJ%xçé"e£ / ŠAì7’8hbdöaHf­¹“«"xeìõŠ00½R£ÿã#ö9aùŽ[©^oò­•dôŽi

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : Baseline@L5.0
Format settings, CABAC                   : No
Format settings, ReFrames                : 1 frame
Format settings, GOP                     : M=1, N=12
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 44s 461ms
Bit rate                                 : 30.9 Mbps
Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 23.976 fps
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.621
Stream size                              : 164 MiB (95%)
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : UTC 2013-07-06 07:53:17
Tagged date                              : UTC 2013-07-06 07:53:17
Color primaries                          : BT.709
Transfer characteristics                 : BT.709
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.601

Audio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : PCM
Format settings, Endianness              : Little
Format settings, Sign                    : Signed
Codec ID                                 : sowt
Duration                                 : 44s 461ms
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 1 536 Kbps
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel positions                        : Front: L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth                                : 16 bits
Stream size                              : 8.14 MiB (5%)
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : UTC 2013-07-06 07:53:17
Tagged date                              : UTC 2013-07-06 07:53:17

And the other comes from my Panasonic Hc-v700 camcorder:

Code: Select all

General
ID                                       : 1 (0x1)
Complete name                            : F:\Video\source files\2013\2013-07-06\2013-07-06 18-52-22-estrade going on.m2ts
Format                                   : BDAV
Format/Info                              : Blu-ray Video
File size                                : 44.2 MiB
Duration                                 : 14s 873ms
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 24.9 Mbps
Maximum Overall bit rate                 : 28.0 Mbps

Video
ID                                       : 4113 (0x1011)
Menu ID                                  : 1 (0x1)
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L4.2
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames                : 2 frames
Format settings, GOP                     : M=3, N=24
Codec ID                                 : 27
Duration                                 : 14s 840ms
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 23.7 Mbps
Maximum bit rate                         : 25.0 Mbps
Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate                               : 50.000 fps
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.228
Stream size                              : 41.9 MiB (95%)

Audio
ID                                       : 4352 (0x1100)
Menu ID                                  : 1 (0x1)
Format                                   : AC-3
Format/Info                              : Audio Coding 3
Mode extension                           : CM (complete main)
Format settings, Endianness              : Big
Codec ID                                 : 129
Duration                                 : 14s 880ms
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 256 Kbps
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel positions                        : Front: L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth                                : 16 bits
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Delay relative to video                  : -40ms
Stream size                              : 465 KiB (1%)

Text
ID                                       : 4608 (0x1200)
Menu ID                                  : 1 (0x1)
Format                                   : PGS
Codec ID                                 : 144
Duration                                 : 14s 336ms
Delay relative to video                  : -40ms

They are both relatively high quality formats but what do I use for the final fps? how can I combine 50fps with 23.976fps?
Thanks
David Z

[lata]

Hi David

Your earlier post shows you wish to view the video on a TV as well as the internet.

For the TV I assume you are using a standard DVD, as mentioned that requires Mpeg2 using 25fps with a frame size of 720 x 576 16:9 ratio.

Both your videos will have their frame rate changed, the 24fps will have one frame added, you probably wont notice the difference.
The 50P video will have half its frames removed to play at 25fps, you will be reverting HD to SD, the Standard DVD playback should be good. As good as the old DV-Avi video.

If you are intending to burn a disc you may be best recording using 25fps not 50P

Again add both types to the timeline and render to a new video file, play to view the quality, for internet repeat using different properties to find the best option.

Again for a DVD disc you have to use Mpeg2 format.

The Canon 550d video would be suitable for the internet as is, but may be quite large, try rendering to Mpeg4 using Upload to Web template. Will create a video 1280 x 720.

You are best testing these options using a short sample.

[skier-hughes]

But he may have one of many of the HD variants of HD tv available and a blu ray player, xbox or play via a pc or media centre..........

[lata]

Hi David

I am sure the questions have been raised before, but can you tell us what type DVD player you own, a standard DVD or Bluray player.
Can you also tell us what type of burner your pc has, can it burn HD Bluray discs.

I assumed you were limited to burning and playing standard definition video.

[dmz]

Sorry, I cannot find an option to alert me when someone replies to my posts in this forum.
My burner is a Samsung SE-506 which burns blu-ray and I have a blu ray player - A cheap soniq that plays all regions all formats

Thanks

David Z

[lata]

Hi David

Your profile/preferences show the option to “Notify me upon replies by default:” is selected so you should be getting Post Notifications.
In addition at the bottom of your post is the Options Tab, "Notify Me when a reply is posted" should be ticked,--If Yes--

Maybe the mails are being stopped by your Junk Filters, can you check these.

Can you add our e-mail address to your contacts, maybe that will set our mails as friendly.
contactcorelwebboard@gmail.com

I will send you a Private Message (copy of this post) to test the system, you should receive an e-mail notifying you of a personal message.

I will also send via my private e-mail, certainly you should receive that.