problems with sound when capturing in X5

[skier-hughes]

You can use movie maker, so long as you don't have the live version installed, to test capture.

[lata]

Thanks again for all of your help!!!

When I get a cable, I will let you know if it solves the problem. While I am waiting for the cable I will try the capture on my desktop with windows XP, which will let me know if it is the cable since it has a port. I need to install the video software first. I will let you know how that works and I will also try WinDV. Thanks for the link to the software.

Try using Win DV as mentioned by Ken and I. then you do not need to install VS.
Quote....
You might also want to try that small freeware capture program Trevor mentioned above: WinDV. You can find it at http://www.windv.mourek.cz But if you have trouble with that too, then that would definitely imply there is something physically wrong with your set-up -- either the cable or the card.

[SheilaN]

Duh, thanks I forgot about that!!

[SheilaN]

Again, I want to thank you all for your help.

I downloaded WinDV and had the same result of choppy/static filled audio during the capturing in VSX5. Then I tried something else. First a little background. The footage is filmed using a Canon GL2 camera. I am downloading footage into VSX5 with a Canon ZR800 camera. The Canon GL2 belongs to the church and someone else keeps it and controls its settings. the Canon ZR800 is mine.

I noticed when the ZR800 is on, the setting reads 12-bit, stereo 1. When I play the tape recorded on the GL2, the stereo 1 indicator disappears. I used tapes of my own that were recorded with the ZR800 and captured in VSX5 with no audio problems at all. I tried this with 4 different tapes, recorded at various times and they all captured great!

With that, it would seem that my firewire express card adaptor and cable are working properly. We have been working this process with the recording on the GL2 camera, and the capturing done with the ZR800 camera since November, and have not encountered this problem until now. Apparently, there is now a disconnect of some kind between the two cameras when it comes to capturing now. The tape recorded on the GL2 plays fine on the ZR800, just having this audio problem when capturing. I tried changing the settings of play back on the ZR800 and nothing changes. I don't know what the recording settings are on the GL2, and will have to find out.

I have looked through the book that came with my VSX5 software, but cannot find anything where I would make any changes to audio, (that I understand ), during capture.

I want to thank everyone for trying to help me with this. You have helped me to eliminate what the problem is not.

[Terfyn]

I can only quote for my Canon HV20.
There are two audio settings 16Bit and 12 Bit .When [HD STANDARD] is set to one of the DV standards, you can change the
audio quality.
[ 16bit]: To record sound at the highest quality.
[ 12bit]: If you will dub audio or add a music track later with an external device.

So you should be in 16 Bit mode on both cameras
and

STEREO1], [ STEREO2],
[ MIX/FIXED], [ MIX/VAR.]
You can select the audio track to use during the playback of a tape with audio dubbed over the recording.
[ STEREO1]: Original sound only.
[ STEREO2]: Dubbed audio only.
[ MIX/FIXED]: Mixed audio with the original sound and dubbed audio at the same level.
[ MIX/VAR.]: Mixed audio where the balance between the original sound (ST-1) and the dubbed audio (ST-2) can be adjusted.
You should be in Stereo 1 mode on both cameras.

The other explanation may be tape head alignment. As your camera works on both record and playback but the problem is with a tape from another camera then there may be a slightly different head alignment between both cameras. This does not mean that your camera or the other camera has a fault but it is better to play back on the camera that recorded the original tape. The heads on the video camera are such sensitive devices that any misalignment may cause the problem, we had this in the old VHS tape days!!

[skier-hughes]

Sounds like a setting has changed on the church camera.
Do they use plug in microphones?
Ask them to do a test recording in the settings they have now and then record a section using 16 bit recording, if they do have mics connected they may need to disconnect these, and go and test capturing.

[lata]

Hi

You said
“I downloaded WinDV and had the same result of choppy/static filled audio during the capturing in VSX5”
A little confused here…….
Did you try capturing using Win DV,

12bit 16 bit audio………
I have always understood the 12 bit audio is to allow overdubbing within the camera after recordings have been done. Most cameras allow for some kind of editing within the camera.

All my Mini-DV type cameras were set to 12 bit by default. You have to change this within the cameras menu settings to 16bit.
It will affect new recordings, it will not affect old recordings using 12 bit.
16 bit will give a slightly better audio, but I doubt if you will notice the difference.

I would be surprised that using 12 bit is causing your problem.

I mentioned this earlier but just to repeat.
Capturing using Firewire from a Mini-DV camera to DV format literally copies the video/audio stream to the pc, just like Copy and Paste except it is done in real time as the tape plays, there is no re-coding, what you have on the camera is what you get DV-Avi.
The only option you have to set is the DV Type, and that should be “Type 1”

Video Studio does not provide any means to change the capture properties, so you cannot set 12bit to 16bit, this was set during the recordings, it cannot be changed.

In fact the word “Capture” may be a little misleading, maybe we should use “Transferring”

Just to sum up what is happening
You are recording with the Church camera, but transferring with your camera.
It used to work, so what has changed?
Your camera works ok using its own tapes.
Have you changed the make of tapes used?
Have you recorded in LP (Long Play) instead of Standard Play.
Has the settings been changed as Grahams comments.?
Terfyn mentions head alignment, this maybe the cause when using two cameras, but then it used to work?

If it used to work then something has changed?

Your best option is to use the Church camera to transfer the video streams.

[SheilaN]

Sorry about the confusion on WinDV. I captured in WinDV and had the same audio problems in WinDV that I had in VSX5.

There are no plug in microphones used on the church camera.

I looked through the manuals for both of the cameras and saw the information on 16-bit and 12-bit that you explained. We do record on long-play, and there have been tape changes. We use JVC, TDK and the new addition to the tapes was a Panasonic brand. The Panasonic tapes are the ones I am having problems with right now, or when this problem started. Someone else at the church keeps the church camera and inventory of tapes. She rotates the tapes' usage each week. The only question I can't answer is if the settings have changed on the church camera. I won't be able to find out what the church camera settings are until this Sunday, but I do have a question. I'm trying to understand what I'm reading about in the manuals about playback. As I understand it, the only play back audio mode that can be adjusted is 12-bit, the 16-bit cannot be adjusted on the cameras. Is that accurate? If the church camera is set to record in 16-bit, would my camera figure that out during play back, even if my camera is set to record in 12-bit? Just trying to figure out if both cameras are set to record in 16-bit, does that have any effect during the playback, since playback settings for 16-bit cannot be changed.

I agree that something has changed with the church camera, I'm just not sure what it is. Could the brand of tape possible cause this? along with the head alignment being the potential issue?

I will let you guys know what the settings are on the church camera after I have had a chance to check it this Sunday. If there are different tapes uses in this Sunday's rotation of tapes, I will let you know if that makes a difference as well.

I think your solution to capture using the same camera (the church camera) that the footage was recorded on would be the best solution. I will also discuss with the lady who keeps the camera, and see if she will allow me to take the camera home for a couple of hours to do the capturing/transferring.

Thank you all very much for you help. I really do appreciate it!!!!!!

[lata]

Hi Sheila

The 12 bit 16 bit is set on the camera as part of the menu’s recording options.

The choice is used during recording and embedded to the tape.

It does not matter about the recording settings when you playback.
You playback whats recorded to the tape, as I said its similar to Copy and Paste, what you have on the tape is what you get on the pc, there is no changes.
Changing the 12bit to 16bit does not affect playback.

The interesting point is the fact that you re-use the tapes, they will not last forever, each time you record the tape will degrade, its only a matter of time when it becomes noticeable. They may playback better with the machine they were recorded with, but they will degrade with use.

I own a Panasonic GS 400
With the camera set to record mode the Tape Recording Menu can be accessed. You have to access the menu in “Record Mode”

The “Recording” option allows access “Recording Setup”
Now I can set 12bit or 16bit for the “Audio Record” option
Once set the choice remains as the settings are retained by an internal battery.
Or unless the user resets the settings to factory defaults.

It will be interesting to know if the problem exists using the Church camera.
If there are problems then I would suspect the tape?

[Ken Berry]

Sheila's last post revealed a new bit of information which I think could also be relevant here. She said they use long play. As we know (or at least I do from personal experience), long play differs from camera to camera. In other words, playing back a tape recorded in long play on one camera but played back on another camera, will often produce erratic results. So I really think the solution is either to give up using long play altogether or else capture the long play video from the camera which recorded it.

I don't think it is the brand of the tape. I use a variety of brands in my mini DV tapes: Sony, Panasonic, TDK and Maxell -- and have never had problems with any of them. Mind you, I never record in anything but Standard Play mode these days.

[Terfyn]

Reusing tapes is the biggest false economy there is. Yes a tape can be reused and no it will not be as good as the first time it is used. Tapes wear, heads get dirty (has anyone cleaned the tape mechanisms in the cameras?) The result is drop out.

Seriously to solve this problem you must start with a "clean sheet".

1) Does your camera transfer to VS without problem? If YES then the problem lies between the church camera and yours.
2) Can you transfer successfully from the church camera into VS? If Yes then probably head misalignment. Use the church camera to transfer.
3) How many times have the tapes been used? If more than 3-4 then you have no problems with your setup. It will be the church camera and old tapes. Dirty heads or worn tapes.
4)Do not use LP, a very false economy.

Hope you see the reasoning.

A suggestion. Get the church to invest in a SD card based camera.

[SheilaN]

This is truly a learning experience and I am so glad this forum exists!!!

I do see the reasoning and I agree, along with another member of the audio/video ministry at the church, that it is long past time for the church to invest in a camera with an SD card. We are still waiting for that suggestion to come to pass.

I don't really know how many times the tapes are used. The particular set of tapes (we use two each Sunday) where this problem first occured, were used at least 5 times from the dates listed on the case. Which I thought was way too many times, but am learning, once is enough.

Will see if I can capture/transfer successfully into VS with the church camera. I will also suggest to the person in charge of the church camera that we record in standard play instead of long play, and use each tape only once.

I will let you know what the result is.

Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!

[SheilaN]

I forgot, I have cleaned the heads on my camera, but not sure when the last time the heads were cleaned on the church camera.

[Terfyn]

A few ideas for your persuasive argument:-

1) There is nothing wrong with tape provided everything is new and clean. Tapes and tape mechanisms wear out and need specialist (costly!!) maintenance.
2) SD cards do not (normally) degrade and can be used over and over again. When I have downloaded from my SD card I reformat it. (how many times you can do this - I don't know but I have "reused" the card over 20 times)
3) You don't need a second camera to download - just the card and, if you don't have a card reader in your PC, a USB plug in card reader is but a few dollars. ALSO your camera is not being worn by other peoples tapes!
4) My camera loads the video onto the SD card as a set of files ( I think this is true for all SD cameras) so they are easier to handle in the PC and you can bypass VideoStudio if all you want to do is create a DVD directly from the camera video. My Panasonic HC-V700 came with a program called HDWriter. I use this to download from the SD card for use in VS but the same package will burn to DVD.
5) My 32 Gb SD card will record 4 hours at the high quality setting and just over 13 hours at the low quality (LP??) setting. Enough for most sermons.
6) Unlike my Canon HV20, which needs a mini SD card for still photos, the HC-V700 records both video and photos on the one card. Again they are easily separated during download. Incidentally the V700 takes excellent stills which will print out at A3 size (roughly equivalent to US B) without degredation. So (for example) at a wedding, you could video the ceremony and take photos for the album all with one camera.

Surely they can't refuse you now.

[skier-hughes]

12bit and 16bit audio use different portions of tape, this can have an affect on playback when different cameras are used.
Same goes for long play, this can also cause problems.
16bit is the best choice to use, as this is pretty much standard on all machines, same as SP is.