Packaged audio mix problem

[Davidk]

Using X5 Ulitmate SP1.

Situation
I have a project file with a video clip and still photo inserted in the middle of it at a change of topic - basically, to indicate a historical sequence for a pioneering airplane, and the memorial where that plane is now located (cut at the appropriate place then insert photo).

It sounded odd when playing - images plus sound, image only, images plus sound - so for the first time I used a technique that had been demonstrated to me quite some time ago, which is to use the audio mix features to mute the background music when the video clip was playing, increase the background music volume when the photo still was being displayed, and mute it again when the video clip resumed. These 2 screen shot images illustrate the normal timeline and the audio mix tracks at the relevant part.

On the system I created this on, that treatment worked fine - the clip sound and music played without riding over each other.

The problem
The next step was to package the whole project file onto a USB stick for demonstration to a class using VS. That went OK.

But when I loaded the packaged project file on a laptop running X5 - successfully, everything linked as it should - the results when playing were:
a. - music track played OK if the music track only was selected for the preview window. BUT
b. - when the project mode was selected for the preview, the background from the music track - the one with the audio mix - was silent from start to end.

This is the screen shot for the same audio mix panel from the proh=ject file on the laptop, and I cannot see any difference from the original (mix 2)

And the circumstances on both machines have been repeatable (the original plays fine, the packaged project file doesn't play mixed audio in project mode, but does when selected as a music clip) as I gathered the images for this post.

Conclusion
Somehow, packaging the project file has impacted the (music track and the audio mix) combination.

Questions
1. Is this a known issue?
2. Is a cause known or can it be deduced?
3. Is there a fix?

Thanks,

Davidk

[lata]

Hi David

Interesting little problem……..

The only issue I have in playing audio is after adding a filter, if the FX option is selected then the audio is silent, but selecting the top icon “Media” allows the audio to be heard.

So if you close the sound mixer does the project play ok, assuming the media icon is selected.

I do not use the sound mixer but prefer to cut the video and sound clips using the scissors, then apply Fade-In -- Fade Out and adjust the volume levels 100%.

In your sample if you cut the video at the end of the video fade, then cut the Music at the beginning of the fade, applying the fade from the attributes tab will effectively create a X-Fade.

Besides I do not think the sound mixer actually achieves a mute, the lowest it goes to is 40 Db, at least that’s how it was for earlier versions, things may have changed of course.

Ok David I have just tested this out and my Smart Package plays ok.
I have not used on another pc to playback, but assume you have the problem when playing back on the original pc.

If the original pc is ok then whats the difference in PC,s

[Davidk]

Hi Trevor,

It is consistent - I've plugged the USB stick with the packaged project into the original PC and it plays the same way, so I don't think there are differences between the host computers.
The timeline photo still - that the audio mix is built around - in the post has no filter on it - just a 3 sec look at a memorial. BUT there are cross fades from the video to the photo and from the photo to the video in the timeline. Nevertheless, in the original project file that works fine ie no impact on the mixed audio in the music track.

Ordinarily, I use the technique you outlined for the music track - just select it and adjust the volume in the attributes panel, and choose (or not) fade in/out. It's just easier. And elsewhere in the project, I do that - recorded voiceover in the voice track, within the one timeline clip and in the same sort of situation - a photo still inserted between two sections of the timeline clip. That works OK in the packaged file.

But this time to make the story more flowing, I wanted to insert something into specific parts of the clip in the timeline. Rather than cut and render it into different parts I tried this technique. And it works for audio voiceover. Indeed, in the original project file music track mix works fine. I am just baffled why it doesn't work for mixed clip in music track of the packaged project. Later on in the project, there's a repeat of the same music clip without the mixing setup - and that plays fine in the packaged file.

In short, it seems like my conclusion is good and there isn't a known fix.

There's a workaround that suggests it self to me - forget the audio mix for this sequence and use a second music track clip just for the section around the photo still. So it looks like this:
music 1 - stop with fade out when the cross fade to the timeline photo begins
music 2 - start with fade in sequenced with the cross fade to the timeline photo, and stop with fade out sequenced with the photo cross fade to the next video clip
music 1 - start new clip with fade in sequenced with the cross fade to the rest of the video clip in the timeline.

Any suggestions about this? Haven't tried it yet but it would seem to avoid the audio mix elements in packaging that have caused the problem.that

Davidk

[lata]

Hi David

I asked if the Smart Package plays ok on the host/original PC, at least my last comment was intended to do that.

So does the problem show when playing the Smart Package on the pc that it was created on?

[Davidk]

No. The smart package on the USB stick plays the same way on the originating PC as it does on the laptop.

The original project file plays as it was supposed to on the originating PC.

I included that in my reply post but maybe there was to much extra info there.

What is of interest is that the music track which is affected in the packaged version is the whole track - not just the section which has been 'mixed'. The music duration is about 1min 54sec, and it starts at the very start of the project. The mixed part is in the last 15sec of the track, but the absence of music sound is clear over the whole track. Later in the project, the same music is repeated without any mixing and that plays fine in the original and packaged version. Which is my experience with other projects. It's combination of mixing a track and then packaging the project with that track in it that seems to generate the problem in the packaged result.

Davidk

[lata]

Hi David

Are you able to create a short project, zip the smart package and provide means of downloading, maybe using Media Fire?

I have been unable to replicate your problem..........

[Davidk]

Frustration abounds!
I spent a bit of time thinking about a sample test project - mainly what the smallest size (because of the upload limits we live with in the antipodes) is that would demonstrate the issue. I wound up generating a small packaged - about 10Mb all up, around 14sec - based on the video, photo and music clip in the affected project file. Essentially, I rendered a small part of the source video, and used that as the clip for the test file, and used the same title, frames, still photo and music.

Put it together, cut the photo in, and mixed the music track so that it only played when the timeline clip was muted and the photo still was in the image frame. Packaged it to USB stick (different one, but in the same plug on the PC, and that should not have made a difference). Then opened the packaged USB project file and played it - and it played OK.

Plugged in the USB stick with the original package on it, and played it - still no music sound in the mixed track.
A lot of dark thoughts at this point. I hate it when computers do this . . . . .

In an ideal world I'd sent you the malfunctioning package, but at the adsl2+ upload at 600kbps, that would take almost all day. The project file is just over 800Kb - if you have any tools to analyse it, I could send that by email.

Davidk

[lata]

Hi David

I guess the sample Smart Package proved fruitful in that it confirmed you can create a good project, I guess it also seems to indicate the problem being with the single project and its content. The reason why we cannot replicate the issue.

Back to square one I’m afraid, changing the timelines content or changing the way you set the audio levels.

Your image does seem to indicate using the sound mixer.
Did you try cutting the audio clip then using the fade ramps?

And no I don’t have any special tools other than Video Studio, so would only do what you are doing.

[Davidk]

As I said earlier, inserting and trimming an audio clip, then repeat, is my normal practice. But this time, because the inserted photo is only 3-4 sec in the middle of a sequence, rather than fiddling around with insertions (always at the end), moving it to where I want it (fiddly to say the least) and then trimming it to the duration needed (more fiddly), I tried the mixing route. First time I'd actually used this method, and what went wrong in the result beats me.

So, back to the usual way.

Thanks for the help.

Davidk