All I-Frame (72 Mbps) editing with VideoStudio

[erdna]

On the file format for broadcasters, I doubt if they will be specifically happy with the All-I 72 Mbps. It is intra but not AVC intro50 nor AVC intra100, and these are two Panasonic formats where they are used to.. They like 50mbps mpeg2/4 long GOP as MXF., and also the 4:2:2 sampling format is what they often prefer (for better Keying)

[pvreditor]

FWIW, I've done some more experimenting with the Panasonic GH3 camera, and VideoStudio seems to give the best quality when using 24 Mpbs AVCHD 1080i rendered as 24 Mbps AVCHD 1080i. The picture and sound had no anomalies. At 28 Mbps 1080/60p, rendering in VideoStudio had audio dropouts and visual artifacts. The AVCHD choices the camera gives are:

17 Mbps 1080/60i
24 Mbps 1080/24p
24 Mbps 1080/60i
28 Mbps 1080/60p

(This is the US version of the camera... probably the same in Canada and Mexico.) I've had pretty good luck with 17 Mbps shooting, but I will probably go with the 24 Mbps setting from now on. The extra bits have got to do something good for the video -- or so I'd like to think.

Bob Kovacs
http://www.bobkovacs.com

[erdna]

About the 28Mbps 1080p60 poor results:
did you enable 50/60P editing in the settings ?
did you deselect smart render in the options ?
did you render as "same as first file" ?

[pvreditor]

About the 28Mbps 1080p60 poor results:
did you enable 50/60P editing in the settings ?
did you deselect smart render in the options ?
did you render as "same as first file" ?

I created a custom setting for 28 Mbps 1080/60p rendering, which required that I select one of the 28 Mbps 1080/60p source files. So, it should be the equivalent of the "same as first file" selection. Likewise, I created a custom setting for 1080i at 24 Mbps. I did not deselect smart render... I can try again based on your comments, if you'd like.

Bob Kovacs
http://www.bobkovacs.com

[Kingston]

When you created the custom setting, did you happen to look at the properties box to see what VideoStudio actually recorded for the bitrate and video type? Normally, if you add a file with a bitrate over 18000 kbps for AVCHD, Videostudio will default it 15000 kbps, which you are not told. If you are seeing the bitrates that you say, like 24000 kbps, then you are probably producing MPEG-2 video streams and not AVC streams. I would check the properties of the video files using MediaInfo or by right-clicking on the thumbnail in the VS library and seeing what the video format is. The .m2t video format can be either AVC/H.264 or MPEG-2.

[erdna]

Yes Kingston, with 28Mbps 1080p60 footage, VS really creates (verified w MediaInfo) the right AVC format, but it only renders as a smooth playback file (at least in my case) when 'smart render" is unchecked, otherwise it plays back very jittery. Bob, it doesn't make any difference with "as first file" or via "make movie template" with the reference file. Just make shure to uncheck smart render

[pvreditor]

I turned off Smart Render, re-rendered and got the same result: some video and audio glitches at 28 Mbps 1080/60p. The properties for the custom template I made to render 28 Mbps AVCHD says that the maximum bit rate is 26,491 kbps. The finished file that I rendered says that the bit rate is 23,776 kbps.

It's possible that the artifacts I'm getting have to do with the computer I edit/playback on, which has an Intel i7 (2nd generation) processor. This computer has a separate video card, although I don't remember off the top of my head what it is. I do have a newer, 3rd-gen i7 computer (a laptop with integrated Intel HD4000 graphics), but it's busy doing something at the moment and I can't playback the video on it.

Bob Kovacs
http://www.bobkovacs.com

[erdna]

My results with 28Mbps relate to 1080p50 coming from a Pana TM700 camcorder displayed (fullhd) on an (old) quadPC. Could you upload a 1080p60 example of your GH3 footage? My experience is also that 50/60)fps playback quality is PC and SW player related (PowerDVD vs VLC vs SplahLite vs MediaplayerClassic). The integrated Intel grahics in the Sandy/Ivy bridge structures are "made for"...they say.

[pvreditor]

My results with 28Mbps relate to 1080p50 coming from a Pana TM700 camcorder displayed (fullhd) on an (old) quadPC. Could you upload a 1080p60 example of your GH3 footage? My experience is also that 50/60)fps playback quality is PC and SW player related (PowerDVD vs VLC vs SplahLite vs MediaplayerClassic). The integrated Intel grahics in the Sandy/Ivy bridge structures are "made for"...they say.

I've been tied up for a couple days, as this is my busy writing time of year (before, during and after the big NAB convention in Las Vegas). I will upload a 28 Mbps clip tomorrow.

Bob Kovacs
http://www.bobkovacs.com

[pvreditor]

My results with 28Mbps relate to 1080p50 coming from a Pana TM700 camcorder displayed (fullhd) on an (old) quadPC. Could you upload a 1080p60 example of your GH3 footage? My experience is also that 50/60)fps playback quality is PC and SW player related (PowerDVD vs VLC vs SplahLite vs MediaplayerClassic). The integrated Intel grahics in the Sandy/Ivy bridge structures are "made for"...they say.

Okay, here is a clip from the Panasonic GH3 shot at 28 Mbps AVCHD 60p. See if it works better for you than it does for me. When I render it (using a custom 28 Mbps/60p setting using VS x6), I get audio dropouts and video stutters. However, the source file plays perfectly.

Here it is: http://we.tl/GujggwlgwW

Bob Kovacs
http://www.bobkovacs.com

[Ken Berry]

Thanks Bob -- I am sure erdna will come back with his own observations when the sun is high in Belgium! But in the meantime, I have run your clip through X6 using Same As First Video Clip. The properties of the new output file match those of your 28 Mbps original (though both show 26,490 kbps as the max rather than true 28 Mbps -- no doubt having left space for the audio. But this is the same with other '28 Mbps' samples I have...)

Curious results. In X6 itself, the new video plays back smoothly, both in video and audio. However, in WMP, while the video is smooth, the audio is totally jerky and patchy -- unlistenable!

In VLC player, the first time I played it, the video was smooth except for a brief jerk just before you reached your HDTV. Audio was smooth throughout. The second time I played it, however, the video was jerky throughout -- strange, since it was not like this the first time. But it seems to me that there is something of clash between the codecs being used by various players and that used by VS...

EDIT: As an afterthought, I played your original clip through WMP and it played perfectly. With VLC, however, the first time, it played jerkily at the start, but smoothly around the HDTV and thereafter. The second time I played it, it was smooth up to the HDTV and jerky thereafter. So there is indeed something strange going on here... Audio was fine in both players.

[aljimenez]

I have been doing some video clips with my new GH3 and my 4 year old pc is having nightmares playing the 1080p60 files. This GH3 does full HD at 60 frames per second with max bit rates of 50mbs and in camera these files show impeccable quality. I have a feeling pc companies should give some money to the camera companies since they will cause many of us to upgrade our pc's... Al

[Natal]

I would have thought that the higher bit rates would be less demanding since they involve less compression.

[pvreditor]

Curious results. In X6 itself, the new video plays back smoothly, both in video and audio. However, in WMP, while the video is smooth, the audio is totally jerky and patchy -- unlistenable!

In VLC player, the first time I played it, the video was smooth except for a brief jerk just before you reached your HDTV. Audio was smooth throughout. The second time I played it, however, the video was jerky throughout -- strange, since it was not like this the first time. But it seems to me that there is something of clash between the codecs being used by various players and that used by VS...

EDIT: As an afterthought, I played your original clip through WMP and it played perfectly. With VLC, however, the first time, it played jerkily at the start, but smoothly around the HDTV and thereafter. The second time I played it, it was smooth up to the HDTV and jerky thereafter. So there is indeed something strange going on here... Audio was fine in both players.

FWIW, the original clip plays perfectly smoothly in Windows Media Player on two of my computers, including a four-year-old Gateway with a decent AMD processor. On this Gateway, I'm playing the clip off of a giveaway flash drive -- this is the computer I use to connect to the Internet. (The other computer has no Internet connection, no antivirus and thus no related slowdown. That's what I edit on.)

I'm pleased that so many of you have spent a little time to check this out. I would prefer to edit in 28 Mbps/60p, if there is a way to make it work reliably.

Bob Kovacs
http://www.bobkovacs.com

[erdna]

Yes Ken, the sun is high now...should be. It's snowy weather and very cold (-10C this night). Bob's video's remain "demanding" in general. Even my mmplyer set to 1080p60 output is not as fluent as it should be with 50/60p video. Even worse are the VSX6 renders. On the SW players I noticed that PowerDVD performs best on my PC's followed by SplashLite , WMP and I get the most jerkyness with the VLCplayer.
Bob, thinkingon Natal's remark,could you also try the 50Mbps .mov setting. This is probaby a less compressed flavor and a bit easier to decompress than the AVCHD codec