I'm moving to Darktable

[sauron]

My experience with the DT devs, and with Darktable, has been positive. The app is excellent, and is growing features at a rate of knots - though there are still many areas that could be improved, workflow and UI chief among them. However, the developers are active, and responsive - even if they don't always agree with every suggestion. The IRC channel is always alive, and I've had several constructive conversations, and had a bug I found in the geolocation fixed in less than an hour.

Point 6 on your list (the double clicking) irritated me a lot, until I found out that you can navigate the images in the filmstrip from the keyboard - space goes forward, and backspace goes back. I find that rather unintuitive (as with many of the shortcuts), but they are customisable. I still think they need to move to single click navigation, but in the meantime, the keyboard navigation makes it tolerable. I've not yet moved all my imaging over to Darktable, but I'm in the process. I've given up hope on Corel ever doing anything useful with ASP - ironic that when they bought it I was worried about them retaining the Linux support, when in fact the product appears to be equally dead on all platforms.

I don't feel time spent talking to them is wasted, but I think it's important to be aware there are only a handful of developers, and they have a roadmap of stuff they want already. If you want them to re-prioritise and make changes to the app, then I think you have to realise that it will take time advocating those changes and seeing support for them before they get onto the radar. A "drive by" list of what's wrong with the software isn't going to produce a radical shift in thinking, but I've already seen the UI improve considerably from the pre1.0 days to the current 1.1.1 release. There's total transparency on what's going on, and a lot of expertise on the project. Compared to the rather moribund effort Corel are producing, that's a major improvement. At least I have some confidence the project has a future, and I think it's the best app in it's class on Linux, by a mile.

[abrianb]

Ever tried to remove red eyes in darktable?

[tomsi42]

I have tried out Darktable a few times, as well as Raw-therapee. And those programs don't cut it in my view. First off, they are so slow that they make Lightroom look quick. The user interface is confusing; many ways to do almost the same thing and they lack a proper workflow philosophy.

Personally, I have found that Bibble 5/Aftershot 1 is the tool that I am the most efficient in. Unfortunately, there are still a few show-stopping bugs as well as a serious lack of camera support, so I can't use it.

Currently I am mostly using ACDSee Pro 6, which lets me do most of the stuff I can do in Aftershot, but supports more cameras. I also have a Lightroom license, and I am trying to learn how to be effcient in that program. The biggest reason, is that most of the people I know also uses LR, and it has a lens correction database. Which is lacking in ACDsee.

So I am not moving to Darktable ...

[tundraquad]

I have tried out Darktable ... and they lack a proper workflow philosoph.

+1

Personally, I have found that Bibble 5/Aftershot 1 ... a serious lack of camera support, so I can't use it.

You're so right. My wife having a Lumix FZ50, I must use DT to open her raw files.

...The biggest reason, is that most of the people I know also uses LR, ...

It's not because most of the sheeps jump over the cliff that I'm gonna follow. So, good luck to you!

So long,

[binoyte]

I agree with you : for Linux users, there are not many choices.

Ligthzone will be back ! The code source is free now (under bsd licence), and a dev community is on the way...

[afx]

Ligthzone will be back ! The code source is free now (under bsd licence), and a dev community is on the way...

Let's just hope they will work on a workflow concept for the program, currently it is not really suitable for a large number of images.
I seems to be the best option for Xtrans Sensor cams though

cheers
afx

[Pho]

However, I think LR is overrated

Yup.
IQ is ok (since v4), image adjustments are ok (since v4), but the UI is a nightmare of inefficiency. and the featureset is rather inconsistent.

cheers
afx

I am sorry but I really have to disagree with this statement. I have dropped ASP (for the same reason as explained in this thread - ASP had deleted too many pictures I did not ask him to delete) to go to LR4.
I also made the move back from Linux to Win7.

The facts are simple to me. The quality of my production has made a big jump up in a couple of month. And I mean BIG. My pictures are a lot better (no need of any plugin, even the LR brush is a lot better then the ASP local correction). The quality of my prints have improved (thanks to the fantastic print module where you can customize the layout easily). My books are better (and made so much easily thanks to the Blurb module). Even my website is a lot better now, despite the strong critics on this web module by the LR community (it is still so much better then the Bibble galleries - yes, not ASP as it really was just the Bibble galleries). Finally, with ASP I was more on the software side while with LR I am on the creativity/production side.
People were blaming LR on speed vs. ASP. What a joke. The workflow tools (I mean all the different ways to import, sort, compare, mark, eliminate, select...) are so much more professional then ASP that it catches up easily on the slower processing speed. I don't care that my computer has to work 10 more minutes on his own when I have saved an hour of my time in front of the computer.

With so many years on Bibble/ASP and just a few month now on LR, I believe that the people who blame LR either reject the big companies system (which I can really understand, as I did, well.. still do, but... quality first) or they have not not got the right LR training. Just take the latest LR4 book from Scott Kelby, you will wonder why you have wasted so much time on an amateur software.

[tomsi42]

It's not because most of the sheeps jump over the cliff that I'm gonna follow. So, good luck to you!

So long,

It's not actually sheep mentality in this case; just that because so many uses it, there are so much more resources out there to help you when you get stuck. I stayed away from LR for a long time because a) quirky user interface, b) no better IQ than other programs and c) too expensive. The user interface has improved, the IQ has improved and the price is now right.

I will be lurking around here for some time, in case Corel does sharpens up and fixes ASP.

[afx]

The quality of my prints have improved (thanks to the fantastic print module where you can customize the layout easily). My books are better (and made so much easily thanks to the Blurb module).

That castrated thing, based on sRGB?
Just like AS, LR is too stupid to soft proof with CMYK profiles. If you really want color quality out of Blurb, neither the LR module nor the Blurb program will deliver, you need to use Scribus or InDesign and convert the images to CMYK.

Even my website is a lot better now, despite the strong critics on this web module by the LR community (it is still so much better then the Bibble galleries - yes, not ASP as it really was just the Bibble galleries).

Why would I use toy software for that when I have a professional image hoster?

Finally, with ASP I was more on the software side while with LR I am on the creativity/production side.

With things like tag/reject being spread out on the keyboard (P and X), even basic tasks become inefficient.
You can't even compare images while adjusting one of them.
Let alone the idiocy of the download module to put images in dated folders without a project name (ever heard of people with multiple shoots per day?).
Or the inconsistent color tagging (does not work for multiple images in the strip but in the grid?!)
Why are some functions available in the library module and not in development? That artificial split serves no practical purpose and it just a constant PITA.
Or why do I have to click on a slider to be able to use the mouse wheel?

People were blaming LR on speed vs. ASP. What a joke. The workflow tools (I mean all the different ways to import, sort, compare, mark, eliminate, select...) are so much more professional then ASP that it catches up easily on the slower processing speed.

I have been testing them for several weeks now.
I consider them an utter failure.
The DB (and the selection methods based on it) is better then AS, but still on toy level.
The non adjustable keyboard layout was set up by someone who wants to torture users, definitely not conductive for a fast workflow.
Why cant I assign a hotkey to an export but need to navigate through menus to reach it?

I don't care that my computer has to work 10 more minutes on his own when I have saved an hour of my time in front of the computer.

Yes, and LR is not very efficient when it comes to basic checking and culling.
LR is quite inefficient in this department.

With so many years on Bibble/ASP and just a few month now on LR, I believe that the people who blame LR either reject the big companies system (which I can really understand, as I did, well.. still do, but... quality first) or they have not not got the right LR training. Just take the latest LR4 book from Scott Kelby, you will wonder why you have wasted so much time on an amateur software.

I have looked at Schewe and various tutorials. They all show a hardcoded workflow that I consider utterly inefficient. The "my way is the only way" attitude of LR might work for people who have a similar mindset and needs as those that designed LR.
But it falls flat on its face for people that have been doing this a lot longer than LR exists and do have efficient workflow that has proven itself in over a decade...

While the tonal control of LR 4 is probably the best you can get right now (ok, I have not done an in depth comparison with Picture Ninja), its UI is still a piece of manure with lots of inconsistencies and inefficiencies...
And If I really want nice colors by default, C1 v7 runs rings around AS and LR (which have a very similar default rendering for my D700 files).

cheers
afx

[tundraquad]

It's not actually sheep mentality in this case; just that because so many uses it, there are so much more resources out there to help you when you get stuck...
I will be lurking around here for some time, in case Corel does sharpens up and fixes ASP.

OK... More people - more resources. It makes sense. Personally, I've never been stucked. I always had very knowledgeable people answering my questions & helping. Look at "afx" for instance. After what they did to him, he is still here helping us. I've got so much respect for him. Even yourself, you helped me in the past. So, until ASP does a great job for me (I find the workflow unbeatable) & keep getting better (ok, very slowly!) I'm staying fidele to it. DT is temporary, until ASP can open my wife's camera raw files.
When Corel took over B5, they didn't wreck it. But when LR took over RawShooter, they destroyed something that could have been the best product ever. And if they became what they are today, it's 95% because of their name. So, I've got no special respect for them (not more than they do respect linuxians).

Take care

[tomsi42]

It's not actually sheep mentality in this case; just that because so many uses it, there are so much more resources out there to help you when you get stuck...
I will be lurking around here for some time, in case Corel does sharpens up and fixes ASP.

OK... More people - more resources. It makes sense. Personally, I've never been stucked. I always had very knowledgeable people answering my questions & helping. Look at "afx" for instance. After what they did to him, he is still here helping us. I've got so much respect for him. Even yourself, you helped me in the past. So, until ASP does a great job for me (I find the workflow unbeatable) & keep getting better (ok, very slowly!) I'm staying fidele to it. DT is temporary, until ASP can open my wife's camera raw files.
When Corel took over B5, they didn't wreck it. But when LR took over RawShooter, they destroyed something that could have been the best product ever. And if they became what they are today, it's 95% because of their name. So, I've got no special respect for them (not more than they do respect linuxians).

Take care

I haven't been stuck on B5/ASP either; it has a more sensible layout, so it is possible to figure out things after one learns the basics. LR is not built in the same way, so there one really needs all the resources one can find ...

It is true that Corel hasn't wrecked B5, but the problem is that they really haven't moved it forwards either. It is now one year since they released ASP 1.0, and in that time I would say it is reasonably to expect all the known major bugs to be fixed, and support for many new cameras to be added. Since that hasn't happened, my patience is used up and I swallowed a few camels and went down the evil path ...

[tundraquad]

Hi tomsi42,

You're right. Corel really haven't moved forward. I understand that it can be frustrating. But looking a the big picturel, What is the most frustrating: being patient & keeping the finger crossed, or switching back from linux to Windows & having to deal with the nasty most irritating Windows stuff just for the purpose to start over w/ another application (I mean LR) ?
Personally, I'm so glad that I give up on windows that I will never go back. I will sitck to Linux at 100%. So, what choice do I have?
ASP could be improved. You're right! It has a lot of potential (thanks to the Bibble Team) and we all feel that this potential is kind of "wasted". Well, maybe it's just me, be I still hope that Corel will open their eyes & put more energy into ASP. I'm also hoping that they would reconsider the capabilities of guys like "afx" & do something.
You may think that I'm on my own "cloud". But it's up to us, I mean "all of us" to tell Corel "hey guys, you've got such a valuable thing in your hand. So, please don't screw up". I know "tomsi" that you're listening. So, let see if one of the Corel guy will answer to this reply.... If not, well tomsi, it means that you're making a smart move.

Take care

[roland65]

You can also try to use Lightroom with Wine on Linux. There are minor issues but it works very well now.
Look here for complete instructions (fourth message of the page) http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/digi ... ell-3.html
RB

[afx]

Roland,
did you try that with a newer version (I think the PPA has 1.5.21)?
Did you get your patches in upstream?

cheers
afx

[algreen345]

Roland,
did you try that with a newer version (I think the PPA has 1.5.21)?
Did you get your patches in upstream?

cheers
afx

Looks like there is a fix for wine to run Lightroom here: http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=30164

I'm testing it now...