Hightlight recovery - ASP 1.1.0.30

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n00b
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Hightlight recovery - ASP 1.1.0.30

Post by n00b »

So I installed AfterShot to 1.1.0.30, exited about possible improvements with hightlight recovery.
Unfortunately I don't see improvements - the highlights slider has almost no effect on my photos.
Here is and example comparing ASP with Lighroom:

ASP - sky almost pure white, difficult to add nuances:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/janus_sand ... 9045398751
Image

Lightroom - sky in different nuances, plenty of possibilities to do adjustments:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/janus_sand ... 9045398751
Image

Suggestion - besides adding (buying) a grad-filter which would to some extend fix the problem?
Linux. Nikon D200.
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Re: Hightlight recovery - ASP 1.1.0.30

Post by Trucks »

ASP is Lightyears behind Lightroom with HL Recovery, known Problem, in every Bugtracker.

Regards

Trucks
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Re: Hightlight recovery - ASP 1.1.0.30

Post by n00b »

Trucks wrote:ASP is Lightyears behind Lightroom with HL Recovery, known Problem, in every Bugtracker.
Yes, noticed it. Was just hoping for improvements with the update.
Have being playing with LR and ASP in parallel. Almost-burned-out-pixels (and sometimes an easier to reach pleasant vigne effect) are easier to fix in LR.
Still, ASP is my preferred raw-converter. Just wish Corel will fix highlights, provide a (build-in) grad-filter
- and realize the importance of communication & community.

Image
Grad filter plugin (demo)
Linux. Nikon D200.
Exploring the new world of RAW processing.
Evaluating AfterShot: http://www.flickr.com/photos/janus_sand ... 823510041/
New on Corel Video Studio X5. First project: Talking head style documentary.
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Re: Hightlight recovery - ASP 1.1.0.30

Post by tomsi42 »

I think the point is that in ASP is a highlight recovery function - one that tries to fix out blown out areas. Which really isn't the problem in this photo - the sky is not blown out.
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Re: Hightlight recovery - ASP 1.1.0.30

Post by binoyte »

n00b wrote:, provide a (build-in) grad-filter
It already exists !
  • Add a layer. Set exposure to ±1, ±2 what ever
  • Draw a region with a large transition (800).
That's it.

There is seriously no difference between this method and GradFilter Pro.
Darktable 3. Bye bye aftershot.
KeithR

Re: Hightlight recovery - ASP 1.1.0.30

Post by KeithR »

tomsi42 wrote:I think the point is that in ASP is a highlight recovery function
That's just it - the problem is that ASP doesn't do any recovery at all.

This is what Lightroom (And Photo Ninja, and even - as of the latest release - Capture One, which used to be almost as bad as ASP) can do with this.

All ASP does is make the whites grey. No detail recovery whatsoever.

(I suppose this is "off topic" as well?)
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Re: Hightlight recovery - ASP 1.1.0.30

Post by tomsi42 »

KeithR wrote:
tomsi42 wrote:I think the point is that in ASP is a highlight recovery function
That's just it - the problem is that ASP doesn't do any recovery at all.

This is what Lightroom (And Photo Ninja, and even - as of the latest release - Capture One, which used to be almost as bad as ASP) can do with this.

All ASP does is make the whites grey. No detail recovery whatsoever.

(I suppose this is "off topic" as well?)
That was an interesting example; I am surprised that you weren't able to recover anything with ASP; I have some photos that ASP recovered within 99% of what LR recovered. I am not sure if this is a HR problem; could it be a Canon profile problem? The files I tested comes from Panasonic GH2.
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Re: Hightlight recovery - ASP 1.1.0.30

Post by chipbutty »

Highlight recovery in ASP is terrible. I've tested a dozen RAW processors over the past six months and it's probably the worst. Hardly any detail is recovered, just a splodge of gray. If Corel are committed to ASP it could be a really good alternative to the usual suspects. There are so many other aspects of it I like but some of the fundamental features (to me) just don't perform well enough against the competition.
KeithR

Re: Hightlight recovery - ASP 1.1.0.30

Post by KeithR »

tomsi42 wrote: could it be a Canon profile problem?
Could be - like many others, I've been plenty critical of Bibble/ASP's handling of Canon files in the past and it's apparent bias towards Nikon (which I remain convinced is down to its beta testers being Nikon users in the main - certainly, the only two people I know to be beta testers are both Nikon users). I'm not suggesting a deliberate bias, but that things were signed off because they worked with Nikon files without there being any meaningful testing on Canon files), so it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if this was at yet another example of disadvantage to Canon.

It's not as if Canon is a niche player, so if this is a Canon-specific failing on ASP's (and Bibble's before it) part, someone's head really should roll - it's incompetence in the extreme for a converter to be released that fails so comprehensively to convert files from the biggest name in the camera market: and going way back into Bibble's history, there's plenty of evidence that it - and now ASP - are just hopeless with Canon files.

Suffice it to say, I've got thousands of files that are very ETTR (I deliberately shoot this way because I'm confident of the HR abilities of my converters - it's the main thing I choose them for), the hot highlights of which Lr and Photo Ninja deal with without breaking into a sweat (the example above is entirely typical of what I'm able to do with a capable converter); whereas in ASP highlights are turned into featureless grey (and frequently pink) crap.

Even DxO Optics, which hasn't got the best HR, deals with highlights in a far more graceful, aesthetically satisfying way than ASP; and now even Capture One, which used to be pretty abysmal too, has left ASP in the dust.

What p1sses me off most of all is that - as I've mentioned many times - there are loads of really effective open source highlight recovery algorithms out there that could easily be plugged in to ASP, and which would improve its HR performance exponentially (that's how the likes of Raw Therapee and Photivo - both FOSS - can stomp all over ASP here); but here we are, years later, still waiting.

ASP really is a joke.
Last edited by KeithR on Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hightlight recovery - ASP 1.1.0.30

Post by chipbutty »

Hope I'm not getting too off topic here. What do you make of Photo Ninja? I really like it so far but I really hope they introduce the ability to make local adjustments in a future version. Faces can get particularly tricky when I want to increase some Intensity to the general scene - skin tones then get over-saturated. Though I have found I can get around that problem by playing around with the reference hue and lightness sliders. It's ridiculous how quickly I can achieve pleasing results with PN. The future looks good with that one :D
KeithR wrote:
tomsi42 wrote: could it be a Canon profile problem?

Suffice it to say, I've got thousands of files that are very ETTR (I deliberately shoot this way because I'm confident of the HR abilities of my converters - it's the main thing I choose them for), the hot highlights of which Lr and Photo Ninja deal with without breaking into a sweat (the example above is entirely typical of what I'm able to do with a capable converter); whereas in ASP highlights are turned into featureless grey (and frequently pink) crap.
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Re: Hightlight recovery - ASP 1.1.0.30

Post by gareth »

I am quite torn between the two images at the top
The sky is nicer to look at in LR ( but I don't know how accurate) but the people are far better in ASP - they have almost vanished in LR ?
ex-Bibble - mostly OLY E-510 and E-M5 + Win 8
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Re: Hightlight recovery - ASP 1.1.0.30

Post by gareth »

@Keith R - please post raw duck -- it's a good test shot
Last edited by gareth on Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hightlight recovery - ASP 1.1.0.30

Post by texascbx »

I bought Photo Ninja and it is way beyond what Aftershot Pro is now. And if you are waiting for Aftershot Pro to get better or be updated for a certain camera......good luck.
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Re: Hightlight recovery - ASP 1.1.0.30

Post by hannes_hab »

gareth wrote:I am quite torn between the two images at the top
The sky is nicer to look at in LR ( but I don't know how accurate) but the people are far better in ASP - they have almost vanished in LR ?
+1, I think the ASP picture is the better one,
there are different ways to get a different color in the sky.
Keith Rs picture is a better example for what other raw-converters can do better concerning highlights.
It was often said that if the highlights are blown - sometimes there is nothing to recover. But I have seen sometimes there is.
In this case I get much better results with photivo. Photo Ninja is too slow running under wine or on 32 bit WIN XP.
But most of the time ASP is OK for me, sometimes with highlight recover, Gradfilter Pro, layers and regions.
regards Hannes
austria

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bibble 4, bibble 5, ASP mostly on Ubuntu 14.04 ( sometimes Suse Linux 11.4 or WIN10)
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Re: Hightlight recovery - ASP 1.1.0.30

Post by n00b »

gareth wrote:I am quite torn between the two images at the top
The sky is nicer to look at in LR ( but I don't know how accurate) but the people are far better in ASP - they have almost vanished in LR ?
Point taken. I was focusing on the sky.
Now played a little with the "shadow" slider in LR around people (not super accurate => artificial looking) and got a kind of mix between to two previous:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/janus_sand ... /lightbox/

Still like ASP. Just hoping for highlight recovery, a grad filter - and some communication and community building (21st century style) from Corel.
I paid for ASP after testing and thinking and because of Linux. Now back at LR trial and Windows. Hmmm....

Image
Linux. Nikon D200.
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Evaluating AfterShot: http://www.flickr.com/photos/janus_sand ... 823510041/
New on Corel Video Studio X5. First project: Talking head style documentary.
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