Best render setting for old 4:3 AVI project in 16:9

[maxfrost01]

Hi,

Need your help, please.

I've been pouring the hours into a project and need to be ready to play it on my HDTV this weekend. My wife is having a 'BIG birthday' and it's footage of the kids growing up over the last 12 years. Most of the footage was shot using DV tapes. A right-click on properties of one of the clips shows this:

File Format: Microsoft AVI files -- OpenDML
Video
Compression: DV Video Encoder -- type 1
Attributes: 24 bits, 720 x 576, 4:3
Audio
Compression DV Audio -- PAL
Attributes: 32,000 kHz, 12 Bit, Stereo

I've distorted or used 'pan and zoom' on all of the clips so they all appear on the preview screen as 16:9 and the project looks superb when I run it in X5.

Now here's the problem...............

When I render a video file I just seem to get a massive quality loss. The picture is nowhere near as sharp as it appears in X5 - it just goes blurry. It's still watchable but very disappointing. I've tried it as AVI (uncompressed and compressed) as mpeg2 and as AVCHD. None of them are sharp enough.
Also, I have a problem keeping the 16:9 format. If I render a wmv file it squashes back to 4:3. Very frustrating!

I want to play the video file on my Western Digital HD media player so I just need a video file NOT a DVD.
I'm guessing that the best file type (minimal quality loss) will be AVI and the WD player allegedly supports AVI (mpeg4, XVID, AVC).

To complicate matters further I have some HD footage in the project. Some is mpeg2 and some is AVCHD but there is not much of this and if I could just crack the quality of the AVI footage I reckon that would be a result!

Can anyone please advise on the correct/best settings for rendering a video file from my almost perfect project?

Max

[lata]

Hi Max

I would first render the project to DV-Avi, that will use the original properties you show with the exception of the aspect ratio which should be set to 16:9
Then render this file to your chosen output.

DV-Avi is a lossless format and as such should retain the original quality.
However you have stretched the original AVI which is going to impact on quality.

DV-Avi uses Interlacing, Lower Field First, you should use this field order.
Video Studio default templates use Upper Field, you should use Make Movie Templates Manager to create a suitable template.

The use of HD video types may complicate things a little regarding the field order. They use Upper Field.

I would try converting everything to DV-Avi , Frame Based is another option that may help, as your videos are a mix of field orders?

Then convert to your chosen output file, use a short section as a test, try Transport Stream mpeg2, Mpeg4, take note of the time render takes, and of course the quality.

[skier-hughes]

If I was doing it, I'd leave it as 4.3 and let the tv handle the change in aspect. They tend to do it just a little better.
What tv do you have, is it 1920x1080 ie full HD and is it an interlaced or progressive tv, so does it play 1920x1080i or 1920x1080p, this will make a difference to what you need to save the file as.
Are you playing a dvd on an sd dvd player through to your HDTV?
If you have a good quality one that handles upscaling well this will give best results.
Using a bluray player?
You could use VS to convert your movie to a bluray format and burn to a bluray disc.
Does the tv play memory sticks or the like?
You might find saving as an HD WMV file might give best results.

[maxfrost01]

Hi, Lata & Graham

As ever, thanks for coming back to me so quickly. You guys are the best thing about VideoStudio.

Lata.
Question for you. If I render to DV-AVI using the 720 x 576 setting what happens to my few HD clips that are in the project? Won't they get downgraded to SD?

Graham.
My TV is Full HD 1920 x 1080 and I like the idea of (somehow) rendering to suit the TV. That just sounds like a smart thing to do (maybe you can tell me how).
However........if I let the TV do the cropping from 4:3 to 16:9 doesn't that mean I lose control of where the crop cuts the image? If I do it myself in the timeline I can (pretty much) stop people losing their heads. Also, what will happen to my few HD clips which are already 16:9? Will they get squished beyond all recognition (though I confess I like the idea of appearing slimmer).

[ianwoody123]

Dont know if this might be worth trying - recently had to put a friends footage onto dvd for her and her camcorder is mini dv recording in 14.3. I put the footage on the overlay track. In the preview window I right clicked on the footage and used "fit to screen" then followed this with another right click and "keep aspect ratio". You do lose a small amount around the edges but this appeared to be minimal. I then did all the edits required and inserted cross fades where necessary and created a video file using Share > Create Video File > selected DV from the drop down menu and then 16.9 and left it to render. The end result was very watchable and my friend was pleased with it. Don't know if this will help you but it was the best workaround I could find for a good end result.

[maxfrost01]

Hi, Ian

Thanks for the info.

The way you describe editing the 4:3 footage is exactly what I did when I had footage on the overlay track. I found I could manipulate the footage on the main track by clicking on 'Distor' then I was able to 'fit to scree' and 'keep aspect ratio' in the same way.

And I think burning in DV setting is the way to go except that I also have HD footage in the same project and I don't want to downgrade it to SD.

Any thoughts on how to optimise the quality of the SD Avi footage without losing quality of the HD mpeg2 footage?

[canuck]

You can't have two different formats in the same video file. This means that your HD video will be "down converted" to a SD format or you can upconvert the SD to HD. Upconverting the SD will of course not give you the full HD quality and may in fact give you lower quality since any "imperfections" in the SD will be magnified.

[lata]

Hi Max

Couple of options

I recommended DV-Avi as you also had problems with black borders or clips not retaining the 16:9 ratio, I thought DV-Avi being your main content would be best., then convert that to your chosen output. (DVD Mpeg2) As Graham said the TV upscaling option works quite well so creating a standard definition may be the way to go.

You could try rendering to HD Transport Stream , I converted my DV-Avi 4:3 to 16:9 then converted to HD using :-

MPEG Transport-Stream Files
24 bits, 1920 x 1080, 25 fps
Lower Field First (you may be best with Frame Based.)
(HDMV-PAL), 16:9
H.264 Video
Video data rate: Variable (Max. 18000 kbps)
Audio data rate: 384 kbps
Dolby Digital Audio, 48 KHz, 2/0(L,R)

You do not give any details regarding your HD video properties, You should try to use those properties to convert the project, but again watch the interlacing, use Frame based.

[maxfrost01]

Hi, Lata

But.........can you just confirm that if I render to DV-Avi 720 x 576 I will lose my HD quality? i.e. it will become SD quality? And once I've done that surely I can't then get back to HD simply by using the MPEG transport-stream settings?
I would guess that the only way I can keep HD quality is by rendering direct from my VSP using HD settings.

Is that right?

[lata]

Hi Max

Yes converting from HS to SD is going to reduce quality purely by reducing the frame size from 1920 x 1080 to 720 x 576, you may however be surprised in the quality you will get.
You do seem to indicate that the HD content is minimal.
By the way DV-Avi will be larger in file size GB that the HD template I showed.

Run a test, convert using both methods top see which is best. You say not DVD Discs, I assume playing a file directly using a USB connection or similar, so you are not making any coasters.

When I mentioned Transport Stream I meant to convert the project to HD rather that DV-Avi, Still wondering about those black borders?