No sound on a clip in rendered project via create disk image

[Davidk]

Using X5 pro, a project comprising an introduction and 6 clips was created, with menu. Each clip has its own sound (voice and music). The rendering config included 2 pass conversion and normalise sound checked, for creation of a disk image on an HDD folder. The preview worked fine - vision and sound OK. Because there were multiple disks to be made, the image creation also worked fine, as did the burn disk from iso.

But when the resulting disk was played back after burning, the first clip on it had no sound. Imagery fine, just no sound. It wasn't an isolated case. A repeat try - with particular care to check this aspect, ie sound on the clip, was OK during preview - got the same result in the final disk.

What went wrong? And how to fix it?

Davidk

[lata]

Hi

first play the Iso file before burning the disc to check quality. I use VLC Player to play the disc Image. Does it play without problems?

OK
Instead of burning the disc from the project files first create a video file
How...........
with the project open and showing in the timelines
Share Create Video File DVD, this will create a compliant Mpeg2 file saved to the HDD
Play this to check the quality, is the audio correct.?

If there is still an audio problem tell us about the contents of your project.
Right click a clip in the timelines and select properties, what are they?
In fact tell us this information anyway...........

If yes, all ok
Start a new project. nothing in the timelines.
Share Create disc-opens empty burner module--Add Media files-Add video browse the hard drive for the Mpeg2 file.
The chapter points should be accessible from Add/edit chapter --- scan for scenes (i think)
Create the menu
Create a Disc Image-Play the disc image to check quality
Burn to disc.

[Davidk]

More information on problem . . .
1st create disk image worked OK, but the sound variation in the final product was too much: after the intro, 1st clip OK, 2nd clip almost inaudible, others OK. So re-did the authoring with normalise sound on. Thus the problem: after the intro, 1st clip sound missing, 2nd clip sound OK etc. Strongly suspect issue as being related to the normalise sound function on the final burn disk panel, but that's been there forever and surely would have any bugs sorted by now? Have wasted several discs tracking/testing this so far. My future wishlist for several versions has been to be able to save and resume an authoring cycle - it certainly would help many issues, including this sort. But - every author attempt to try something is a "recreate" from scratch, and whilst there is a fair probability that the various parts are the same it is never certain - apart from taking up immense amounts of time.

Please clarify:
1. the viewer of the disk in its hard drive image form - where to get it.
2. since the created disk image is a non-standard format (a control file plus winzip data files) that Corel chooses to call iso - in lieu of a standard single iso file that iso burners can manage - how does the viewer work?

Meanwhile I'll try the create video file bit and advise results.

Davidk

[canuck]

More information on problem . . .
1st create disk image worked OK, but the sound variation in the final product was too much: after the intro, 1st clip OK, 2nd clip almost inaudible, others OK. So re-did the authoring with normalise sound on. Thus the problem: after the intro, 1st clip sound missing, 2nd clip sound OK etc. Strongly suspect issue as being related to the normalise sound function on the final burn disk panel, but that's been there forever and surely would have any bugs sorted by now? Have wasted several discs tracking/testing this so far. My future wishlist for several versions has been to be able to save and resume an authoring cycle - it certainly would help many issues, including this sort. But - every author attempt to try something is a "recreate" from scratch, and whilst there is a fair probability that the various parts are the same it is never certain - apart from taking up immense amounts of time.

Please clarify:
1. the viewer of the disk in its hard drive image form - where to get it.
2. since the created disk image is a non-standard format (a control file plus winzip data files) that Corel chooses to call iso - in lieu of a standard single iso file that iso burners can manage - how does the viewer work?

Meanwhile I'll try the create video file bit and advise results.

Davidk

I don't know what file(s) you are referring to when you talk about winzip data files. I do not get any when I create image files. VS creates a industry standard iso disc image file which can be burned with any iso burner.

The player that is mentioned is the VLC player. Google for "VLC player"

[Davidk]

Re iso format. With respect, you are wrong. Attached is an explorer image of the iso files created by X5 for the disk with the failing sound in clip #1. The winzip file is an archive of 9 files of the .bup, .vob and .ifo variety that are typically found on a DVD. But it isn't an iso format - see wikipeadia definitions. And the "Active ISO Burner" program - one of many such - will NOT create the disk required from that data, because I tried it before finding the burn link in X5. But in VS X5 Tools,the burn iso disk function will create a disk from that that plays. And hence my comment about "non-standard".

And the case was raised because the disk generated this way with normalise sound checked has the problem outlined.

I also attach a dump of the properties for the clip that isn't playing sound in the created image form

Davidk

[Davidk]

I did upload 2 jpg files to suit the previous comment, but can't see that they've registered. Is there a way to do that?

Davidk

[Davidk]

I have just completed the create video bit that was suggested - no menus in this, but all the clips were there. And it played OK, in particular sound for clip #1 that was missing in the DVD burnt from the created disk image form.

Davidk

[canuck]

A Winzip file has nothing to do with creating a DVD. In fact I don't even know where it came from, it certainly is not created by VS X5.
THe Wikipedia definition I founds states:
"An ISO image (International Organization for Standardization) is an archive file (also known as a disk image) of an optical disc, composed of the data contents of every written sector of an optical disc, including the optical disc file system.[1] ISO images can be created from optical discs or from a collection of files by image creation software; images can be used to write optical discs. Software distributed on bootable discs is often available for download in ISO image format, and used to write a CD or DVD. ISO image files often have a file extension of .iso."

VS X5 creates exactly such a file and it can be burned to a DVD that will play on all DVD players. I have created dozens of iso files using VS and burned them to a DVD using the "Burn from Disc Image (ISO)" option under tools. Every one plays correctly on every DVD player. When using a ISO burning program the iso file is "expanded" to create the proper DVD structure on the DVD which contains various ifo, bup and vob files.

[Davidk]

I guess we have to disagree about how X5 does it then. Getting to the last create disk panel after creating the menu and doing the preview, there's the option to create a disk image, rather than burn it to DVD. The User guide p156. Selecting that, and deselecting create to disk (the default) because doing 2 things is unnecessary and likely to be a complication, it asks for a destination folder and I gave it a unique one, created for the purpose and empty to start. When the create image process was over, in that create image folder there were 2 files:
"Aspects of Animality 3" a Winzip archive of 1361728Kb (type wasn't indicated but it had the familiar winzip icon on the name).
"Aspects of Animality 3.iso" an ADP file of 1Kb

Running an iso burner program on that ADP file failed utterly. I've used the Active ISO burner on .iso programs before (eg, Microsoft's SP3 update to WinXP) , and thought that maybe there were special forms of an iso file. If so, it isn't obvious from wikipaedia. However, opening X5, selecting Tools, and choosing 'burn from disk image' opens a panel to choose the image. User guide p158. Plugging in that ADP file (choose the path to the file and select the filename) and then clicking on the copy icon results in a playable DVD being burnt in the DVD player.

I've downloaded the VLC player and run it on that .iso file and it just sits there doing nothing.

I am NOT saying that X5 does not create a DVD image. I am saying that the way it does it - on my machine with X5 updated to SP1 - works as I described. What I do not understand (and we've gotten off the track a bit) is why the sound track on 1 out of 7 clips (intro counts as a clip) is basically missing (as it happens, its the first clip after the intro that's affected) when the sound track on the intro and all the other clips are there. And that's question. The only difference between this partly failed result and a previous working one created using the same process was that normalise audio was on, for reasons given previously. Based on the feedback above, I've:
- run the project as a straight video file - sound OK on every component, altho note that because it wasn't a DVD output there are no menus in it
- obtained and uploaded images of the project properties and (per explorer) the created image files - but it seems that upload did not work since you've not reacted to them. In part, that's why I used cut n paste to put the file details above.
- obtained and run the VLC player on the created image file outputs from X5 - the ones which generate the DVD from within X5 to see if the problem is there too, but frankly that's a bust.

I have a problem. Telling me that what I see and report to you as the program outputs isn't true doesn't get us anywhere. My machine or version seems to be different to yours. What I will do is go back to one of the clips that has low sound - the one which caused me to check normalise sound as the simple fix - and re-render it with louder audio settings. And then try the whole create disk bit again without normalise sound on, and let you know what the result is.

Davidk

[canuck]

You are incorrect in your interpretation.

The file you call the Winzip file is obviously the the iso file and should have the extension iso. The icons mean nothing. Do you have the extensions turned of??
It is the one to be burned to DVD or played using the VLC player.

the files should be labelled: Aspects of Animality 3.iso and is type ISO and Aspects of Animality 3.iso.adp and is a ADP type (whatever that is, it definitely is not an iso file)

[Davidk]

Well. Last words do seem in order.

1. The file types are displayed in explorer. And program icons as well. The large file with the winzip icon archive is listed as a type winzip file. And the small .iso file is listed as an ADP file.
2. The way my X5 pro is performing - in the sense of file creations and operation in this context - is consistent. Perhaps you should listen to what I have been saying - to wit, following the book and telling you what resulted - instead of being fixated on telling me it ain't so.
3. as outlined above, I re-rendered the clip (clip #3) with the low soundtrack so that the sound on that clip was louder (relatively, 300 versus 100 previously)
4. I re-authored the project with the clips in the same sequence, generated the same menu, previewed it OK and then created a disk image file WITHOUT NORMALIZE AUDIO ON. Different location on disk, different file name and folder empty to start. The result was the same - a winzip archive and an ADP filetype called .iso in that specified folder
5. Inserted a new disk into the burner and selected burn from ISO in the X5 Tools menu. Located the folder, chose the small .iso ADP type file created, and selected copy. DVD burnt successfully. Played successfully too. The clip with previous no sound - now had the original sound levels, and clip that was re-rendered also now louder.

Workaround successful. Why normalize audio would produce this effect - your problem. I don't appreciate faithfully reporting data and being told that its wrong.

Davidk

[lata]

Hi

There seems to have been lots going on here.
David you seem to have two problems, the creation of a good disc with true audio.
After creating the Video File Mpeg2, did you use the file to burn the disc.
Start a new project, nothing in the timeline Share Create disc-Add media, add your Mpeg2 file.

The second issue is the way our pc’s seem to show the iso files.
Can you use Windows Explorer, access the folder containing the Iso files, switch the view to Detail view
This is what I see:-

click image for larger view

My iso is 4 Gb
On your PC ----Do you see the file extension showing .ISO?

Right click the iso file, choose to play or open with VLC Player.

Forum Image attachments
Create an Image of the properties window and attach to your post.
Attachment options at the bottom of post.

There is a tutorial/video written by Ron describing this, link below my post.
I think it shows the attachment process?

[canuck]

Well. Last words do seem in order.

1. The file types are displayed in explorer. And program icons as well. The large file with the winzip icon archive is listed as a type winzip file. And the small .iso file is listed as an ADP file.
2. The way my X5 pro is performing - in the sense of file creations and operation in this context - is consistent. Perhaps you should listen to what I have been saying - to wit, following the book and telling you what resulted - instead of being fixated on telling me it ain't so.
3. as outlined above, I re-rendered the clip (clip #3) with the low soundtrack so that the sound on that clip was louder (relatively, 300 versus 100 previously)
4. I re-authored the project with the clips in the same sequence, generated the same menu, previewed it OK and then created a disk image file WITHOUT NORMALIZE AUDIO ON. Different location on disk, different file name and folder empty to start. The result was the same - a winzip archive and an ADP filetype called .iso in that specified folder
5. Inserted a new disk into the burner and selected burn from ISO in the X5 Tools menu. Located the folder, chose the small .iso ADP type file created, and selected copy. DVD burnt successfully. Played successfully too. The clip with previous no sound - now had the original sound levels, and clip that was re-rendered also now louder.

Workaround successful. Why normalize audio would produce this effect - your problem. I don't appreciate faithfully reporting data and being told that its wrong.

Davidk

It is not a Winzip archive just because your Windows Explorer says it is a ZIP type file. All that shows is that your have file associations for ISO files set to WinZip. Winzip can "open" an iso file and show the ifo, bup and vob files "contained" in the iso files. It is this file that has to be burned to DVD to create the DVD. It is this file that will play using the VLC player.
Also turn on the file extensions for your Windows Explorer and you will see the correct extensions for the files in question.
Trevor showed you what the extensions look like in his attached image.

[Davidk]

Trevor,

I use windows 7 Home premium. It's patched to SP1. And that may have a lot to do with explorer imagery that is seen.

So, I have/always have had the details profile set in explorer, and the data I reported is what I saw in explorer. And the screen image is quite different from the snippet you included above. I tried to upload an image, but the board "upload attachment" tab has never actually worked when I've tried it with various posts: that's something I also have been looking to address to the webmaster, but there does not seem to be a way to send these sort of comments back to a person who might be able to do something about it. If you can, please do. At the very least, post an instruction about how to do it somewhere where it is easily found.

I stated what was in the (alleged) winzip archive by number and type of files, and frankly I thought it would have been self evident that I'd used winzip to open it to get that data.

I stated that the creation of a video file recommended as a step in analysis was OK (sound as expected), but qualified that by saying that as it wasn't a DVD disk option, there was no menu and all the various DVD options in the program are absent.

I did lookup the features of winzip on the web, and zipping/unzipping ISO files are supposed to be a feature of winzip. I also found in the bowels of Windows (one of the options in control panel) the list of file associations which are the Microsoft default for Windows 7. I installed the OS last March and have never changed any of these. In that extensive, multi page list there are 19 filetypes that I counted which were associated with Winzip, and .iso is one of them. Interestingly, .adp is the filetype that is associated with the Active ISO program, which is the ISO burner I use (that's also in the posts). This is what the vendors have done.

Also - after the last exchange - I ran VLC scanner on the winzip archive generated by X5, and it did play: the X5 project number was in the menu, whereas the final disk had the correct name assigned by the menu. The version generated with normalize audio ON had the first clip after the introduction/menu soundless, as did the DVD burnt from that file set, and the cause of that soundless clip was what I raised this topic item to establish. The version generated with normalize audio OFF had the sound on the various clips as stated, which verified the solution my empirical fix came up with.

So, a summary.
I reported a problem, and the process/result by which that problem was seen to occur.
Elements of that reported process/result have been seriously critiqued as wrong, whilst the problem went largely unaddressed. Just because what is reported looks wrong to you does not make what the user saw/sees invalid. In this case the discussion about ISO files and the way X5 operated to create them distracted the responses from the problem, despite my attempts to get back to that: I did say the process presented to me worked, and it was part of the output that was an issue.

I say largely because there were 2 things suggested to me that helped to verify a workaround. One was getting the VLC scanner. The first time I used it was on the designated .iso file, and it did nothing (in the posts). The second was running it on the winzip archive. By that time however I'd worked out the workaround - everything else was failing - and although tedious it did in fact work.

What is left now is for you admin people to address the issue of why normalise audio would produce that effect with Corel. I have the files created if developers want them but be advised the total is about 1.3Gb for each disk image (one with normalise audio ON, and one with it OFF). I upgraded from 11+ to X5, with only passing acquaintance with X2, X3 and X4 so I don't know if the reported sound effect with normalise audio has been in the intervening versions.

Davidk

[lata]

Hi David

We have a lot going on here that seems to be detracting from the original problem.
I will try to provide an image from Windows 7, just need to persuade the wife to give up her laptop for a while.

The issue of Win Zip and file associations is just confusing things.
When I installed WinZip, part of the installation asked me to associate some files. I declined and completed the install.
My Iso files are associated with VLC Player so if I double click an iso file from windows explorer the Player opens and plays the files.

Now you seemed to have problems playing ISO files with VLC, but you did name the program as VLC Scanner, is this the VCL Player?
This is the url of the player http://www.videolan.org/vlc/

As for Win Zip do not use this program in association with the Video ISO, you do not need to open the program at all. Ignore the fact that the ISO shows as a WinZip file.
---------------------------
Forum Attachments I do not know what problems you are having, whether its your system or just pushing the wrong buttons. I will try to do a screen capture to show the procedure.
If you still have problems then you can e-mail me the images. You first create a post and I will insert the images for you. Maybe then we will see what's going on.