What are you switching to?

[sauron]

I've been putting my time into extracting metadata from Bibble XMP files and migrating it across. I miss the catalog - Darktable's "collections" UI s not as good, but it'll improve. ASP is just going to slowly bitrot.

Have you managed to import your ASP settings, especially keywords, to Darktable somehow? There is no direct way as far as I know, but it should be possible via bash script. Just want to know if I have to write one of my own or if there is already a solution...

It's pretty straightforward. I wrote some perl code to extract them from the Bibble XMP, and insert them into either the RAW file, or the Darktable XMP. I tend to update GPS data directly into the RAW file (which I know is contentious, but I consider that as intrinsic to the image as EXIF), and put everything else into the XMP sidecar file.

[madsec]

I've been putting my time into extracting metadata from Bibble XMP files and migrating it across. I miss the catalog - Darktable's "collections" UI s not as good, but it'll improve. ASP is just going to slowly bitrot.

Have you managed to import your ASP settings, especially keywords, to Darktable somehow? There is no direct way as far as I know, but it should be possible via bash script. Just want to know if I have to write one of my own or if there is already a solution...

It's pretty straightforward. I wrote some perl code to extract them from the Bibble XMP, and insert them into either the RAW file, or the Darktable XMP. I tend to update GPS data directly into the RAW file (which I know is contentious, but I consider that as intrinsic to the image as EXIF), and put everything else into the XMP sidecar file.

Cool, would you share that script with me? Please

[lundbech]

So put some effort into working out how you think these things should change in an actionable way, why you think your way is better, and file a wishlist bug, then be prepared to defend your view.

The thing about a project like Darktable is that the developers care, and are listening, and can and will make changes. Just don't expect them to listen to you if all you're saying is "it's hopeless". There are many UI areas of Darktable that I don't like - however I've had some interesting discussions about them. I'm also aware that I can help contribute to the discussion about them, but that doing so will take a certain investment of my time.

To address a specific complaint, the F7-F10 mapping annoys me too, but it's user configurable. Go go general preferences, and you can change pretty much all the keybindings, and make it map much more towards ASP like muscle memory.

I would probably not be investing as much time into Darktable if ASP was still alive and kicking, but although my current camera is supported in ASP, it seems pretty clear that there is no future for the product, and I have had enough of waiting for updates and communication that never comes, bugfixes that don't happen, and all the other crap we've put up with from Bibble Labs and Corel. The last time I can honestly remember it being *good* was when Eric Hyman was still at Bibble.

Lets take that specific complaint: Setting the UI brightness/contrast/color in small increments should not be mapped to keys in the first place. I need two settings. One dark for home/office and one bright for my laptop in varying light conditions and I'll would need to set them once and then no more. The bright one isn't even there. They want me to fiddle with both brightness and contrast indpendent of each other in small (sluggish) increments if I need to change anything.
The problem is that you have the feeling that Darktable is designed to be flashy and cool and show of the developer's programming skills rather than be useable. I'm not the only one thinking that: http://andu-novac.blogspot.dk/p/comment ... tools.html

If Corel doesn't produce anything soon (still have camera support) I'll look to Lightzone (or maybe even Photivo), which is far ahead of Darktable in terms of useability.

Maybe the Darktable developers do listen, but that doesnt really matter if the whole idea behind the software is at best odd. Here's the reason (from their mailinglist) for dividing the program into two parts, lighttable and darkroom: "in the darktable way, we try to separate things in analogy to film photography. I.e. "darkroom" represents the place where the development of your images happens, which is usually separated from going through the shots, picking, tagging and rating. All that is done on a "lighttable", which you do not want to have in your darkroom obviously."

Doing things "in analogy to film photography"? Really? Hello guys, we're digital now! Look at ASPs "Thumbnail View" "Standard View" and "Image View" which is by far a better solution.

Even if they do have GUI guidelines (http://darktable.org/redmine/projects/d ... Guidelines) with fancy words like "peace", "balance", "beauty" and "bauhaus", it will never succeed as long as it's totally unwelcoming to anyone who wasn't onboard from the start.

[cookiebob]

I've been putting my time into extracting metadata from Bibble XMP files and migrating it across. I miss the catalog - Darktable's "collections" UI s not as good, but it'll improve. ASP is just going to slowly bitrot.

Have you managed to import your ASP settings, especially keywords, to Darktable somehow? There is no direct way as far as I know, but it should be possible via bash script. Just want to know if I have to write one of my own or if there is already a solution...

It's pretty straightforward. I wrote some perl code to extract them from the Bibble XMP, and insert them into either the RAW file, or the Darktable XMP. I tend to update GPS data directly into the RAW file (which I know is contentious, but I consider that as intrinsic to the image as EXIF), and put everything else into the XMP sidecar file.

Wow. Could you pls share the script with us?

[afx]

It's pretty straightforward. I wrote some perl code to extract them from the Bibble XMP, and insert them into either the RAW file, or the Darktable XMP. I tend to update GPS data directly into the RAW file (which I know is contentious, but I consider that as intrinsic to the image as EXIF), and put everything else into the XMP sidecar file.

Hmm, why bother? why not just use standard XMPs for the exchange?

cheers
afx

[madsec]

Hmm, why bother? why not just use standard XMPs for the exchange?

cheers
afx

The standard XMP ASP uses aren't real standard XMP, so Darktable can't read them. Not even the keywords are imported in Darktable without vonverting the XMP files to a readable format...

[afx]

The standard XMP ASP uses aren't real standard XMP, so Darktable can't read them.

Then Darktable is broken.
If you tell AS to write standard XMPs, all other programs I ever tested (for example LightRoom, iMatch, CaptureOne) where able to pick up the metadata.

cheers
afx

[madsec]

The standard XMP ASP uses aren't real standard XMP, so Darktable can't read them.

Then Darktable is broken.
If you tell AS to write standard XMPs, all other programs I ever tested (for example LightRoom, iMatch, CaptureOne) where able to pick up the metadata.

cheers
afx

Then maybe the problem is on Darktables side. They said in a bugreport about the topic, that ASP isn't writing standard format and that they won't fix that. And in my case no other program could read the standard XMP files from ASP (all open source like DigiKam, RAWTherapee, Geeqie, gThumb, Darktable). I don't know what is true since I don't know how standard XMP files should look like and if there even is a standard in the first place.

[afx]

Then maybe the problem is on Darktables side. They said in a bugreport about the topic, that ASP isn't writing standard format and that they won't fix that.

Regular AS XMPs != Standard XMPs....
You need to write Standard XMPs explicitly.

You have them confused. A simple case of RTFM. Or just looking closer at the context menu on the thumbs....

cheers
afx

[madsec]

Then maybe the problem is on Darktables side. They said in a bugreport about the topic, that ASP isn't writing standard format and that they won't fix that.

Regular AS XMPs != Standard XMPs....
You need to write Standard XMPs explicitly.

You have them confused. A simple case of RTFM. Or just looking closer at the context menu on the thumbs....

cheers
afx

I know the differece between ASP regular XMP and ASP standard XMP, thanks. But just because Corel writes in there "standard" doesn't mean that I belive that it's really standard XMP's

[afx]

Well, all the other programs you cited do not have a problem wit the standard AS XMPs either, so that sounds like you did not know...

cheers
afx

[madsec]

Well, all the other programs you cited do not have a problem wit the standard AS XMPs either, so that sounds like you did not know...

cheers
afx

Okay, thats odd, I have tried it. Maybe I missed something, so I will try it again...

With Darktable it doesn't work for sure, here is the bugreport:
http://darktable.org/redmine/issues/8783
There is also posted a link to some script that converts the XMP files, but I haven't tested it yet.

EDIT: Okay now I am very confused... I looked into the linked script and in priciple it just changes the name of the ASP standard XMP files to the name Darktable uses for those files. So I tested it again, exported standard XMP files in ASP, manually changed the filename to Darktable convention, and now Darktable (todays git version 1.3 something) can import my files with color and keyword tags. I was sure that I tested that already and nothing worked so far, must have messed something up that day. So I will have to test it with DigiKam again

[nyukuri]

Hi folks, present and former ASP lovers...
yesterday I finally uninstalled ASP! Yes, it took me a long time, and I am still in mourning, but Lightroom 5 will give me all that what made me keep ASP til now. Sure, it isn't as fast as ASP, but I see development, a fantastic DAM and regular updates - with new cameras and functionality! Let's face it guys, ASP IS DEAD already - just like some frozen corpses still around on customers machines. It's a pity! At least now I am assured that my investment in Lightroom 4 (soon 5) will have long time value.
nyukuri

[madsec]

Can someone explane the logic to me please? I really don't understand why Corel should buy the old Bibble, then put money into changing the user interface, and then let ASP die. Why should they do that? Could they have earned so much money by users upgrading from Bibble to ASP to profit from this deal? Or has there been some code that Corel wanted to add to their other Products?

Bibble wasn't a threat to Corel, it seems more like Corel was lacking a RAW development environment and bought something to fill that gap. I could even understand why they fired the old team, there can be many reasons for that. But I really don't get why they should kill ASP just like that, except the one, that they can't manage to develop it further without the old team, because it's to difficult for them...

Maybe they just let us wait till we are desperate enough to by the next update for money

[afx]

It more looks like they did not understand what they bought and AS fell in the cracks of politics and reorganizations within Corel.
Well, it now sits in the same sub-organization as more prominent Corel products and it seems there is an eager product manager.
Whether he can pull off a resurrection remains to be seen, but at least finally someone is doing something, which did not happen with the previous product manager.

cheers
afx