Bye Bye AfterShot

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afx
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Re: Bye Bye AfterShot

Post by afx »

grahamh wrote:afx said
Everything will be dead....
I hope you are saying this in frustration and not fact. It does not make sense for Corel to buy a product and then kill it, left alone it had no future.
You assume rational and logical behavior. I have not seen much of that....
Corel needs to make clear exactly what there development strategy is because silence is going to kill off new sales and existing custom will depart rapidly.
So how much do you want to bet that you will see any coherent strategy?
Whatever it is, you will loose.

The most expensive path Corel can take is to fire the development team and then spend money and time to train new guys. Not likely. And it will delay any updates for quite a long time.
All other options look even worse for the users.

cheers
afx
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Re: Bye Bye AfterShot

Post by afx »

tomsi42 wrote:@afx - this is bad news for all of us; but it must be very painful for you and Marco who have put so much time into the brilliant survival guides that you have written.
Yup.
I guess we should have spent our time shooting instead....

cheers
afx
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Re: Bye Bye AfterShot

Post by Hobgoblin »

Musing aloud .. :evil:

I seem to remember that Corel buys into Twitter and Facebook.
Perhaps raising these issues there will generate a response from Corel.
After all there is no such thing as bad publicity, and Social Networking is so much more public than this Forum.

R.
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Re: Bye Bye AfterShot

Post by grahamh »

afx said
So how much do you want to bet that you will see any coherent strategy?
Whatever it is, you will loose
.

You have just reminded me why in the past I always avoided Corel s/w but when they acquired Bibble I hoped they might have changed. From the pain implied in your words they have not. Bibble were a company with vision and passion but I guess when Eric Hyman departed the future was bleak and as Colleen left the end game was cast.

No you are right, very sad and despite all the signals I stupidly hoped AS would continue the same vision. Unfortunately, Adobe et al are just like Corel only more successful so it seems I shall have to stick with my current camera and AS as it is. Why do large companies lack vision with their products and instead rely on marketing to imply they can plan ahead?

The only other outcome is the guys at Austin are able to use their skills and knowledge to create again assuming they can find a financial backer - just a dream I guess, it will never happen.
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Re: Bye Bye AfterShot

Post by FalCT60 »

grahamh wrote:afx said
Everything will be dead....
I hope you are saying this in frustration and not fact. It does not make sense for Corel to buy a product and then kill it, left alone it had no future.
No sense ? Are you sure ? Well, here is how I see the things : Bibble was becoming too much powerful and this wasn't good for some (planned ?) Corel's product. So, they bought it (no much money, I think), made use of its fame to get some new buyers, took as much money they could, and, then, killed it. Couldn't it be a well handling scenario ?
Thanks to all the developpers and contributors who made it possible to us to enjoy a good and promising piece of software.
Time for me to start looking for a good replacement that will match the following :
- running on windows, as I have not enough time to invest in a new OS,
- so light as ASP, as my machines aren't that powerful (the most recent is 6+ years old...),
- so easy to use as ASP (that discards Gimp which is a... well, what's the english for usine à gaz ?), and, last but not least,
- which doesn't belong to Corel.

Regards,

J.-Luc
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Re: Bye Bye AfterShot

Post by Ken Berry »

FWIW, and at the risk of adding to this veritable feeding frenzy, I have drawn Corel's attention to all this speculation. So far, though, apart from acknowledging my msg, they have not said anything further to me. Hopefully they will give some sort of response -- though as a lawyer I would have to agree that the old legal maxim "qui tacit consentire" (silence means consent) could apply to confirm your speculation.
Ken Berry
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Re: Bye Bye AfterShot

Post by clifford »

as a linux user this is terrible news.

ive used darktable before but find it pretty convoluted. i'll obviously have to try and work with it now. i was getting by with ASP and GIMP but there where obvious problems that i was hoping to be ironed out. i want my money back i really do.

this is enough to make me head back to windows, as i know Adobe LR will not die and is actively developed.

very sad about this.
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Re: Bye Bye AfterShot

Post by jknights »

Ken Berry wrote:FWIW, and at the risk of adding to this veritable feeding frenzy, I have drawn Corel's attention to all this speculation. So far, though, apart from acknowledging my msg, they have not said anything further to me. Hopefully they will give some sort of response -- though as a lawyer I would have to agree that the old legal maxim "qui tacit consentire" (silence means consent) could apply to confirm your speculation.

Ken,
Unfortunately this is not speculation but fact.
As a Beta Tester of ASP and Bibble I have not received any communication from Corel for many months and no new code to test.

As a longtime user of Bibble since 3rd November 2000 I feel that Corel have killed a product that they have purchased for no good reason.
I can truely say that large corporates are the bane of the world and will be the death of capitalism. They are greedy, inconsidered, inconsiderate and short sighted. Thank goodness I decided to give up the hypocritic world they force you to live in.

I think that I may craft a personal letter to the CEO. Doubt I will get a response.
Still learning after all these years!
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Re: Bye Bye AfterShot

Post by sauron »

I there there are a couple of things to consider here. Firstly, ASP, as it exists right now isn't going to stop working, so those of us who have time effort and money invested in it have some time to find the exit ramp. Equally, it's pretty clear that as a living product, it's dead - there will be no future updates, and there's no reason to invest any more time and effort in it as a platform going forward.

For the Linux userbase, it seems clear to me that Darktable is the way forward. It shows a lot of promise, and has the great strength of free software projects that this sort of corporate parasitism can't kill it. Equally, it has a way to go on the UI front in some regards. I'd have thought that an influx of new users at the more experienced demanding end of the spectrum would probably be welcomed if we came with some constructive criticism and tried to help out, where skills and time make that possible. I'd certainly love to see some of the ASP plugins (asGPS, gradfilter) make an appearance in Darktable, and if I were a plugin dev, I'd be pretty hacked off with Corel about now. As a user, I'd be completely willing to contribute to that, even if just through a donate button (dt is GPL3, so a proprietary plugin isn't really viable).

Also, as a relative newcomer to Darktable, it seems to be in need of some good documentation. I bought the B5 survival guide (though not the ASP one, due to some nervousness about the future of ASP, ironically). I'd cheerfully buy a Darktable survival guide if afx were to write one :-)

My hope is that by the time ASP becomes useless to me, Darktable will be a better option anyway, so in the long run, this may not matter, and the exodus from ASP will contribute to a strong, free (as in freedom) alternative on the Linux platform down the line, that's not vulnerable to the sort of thing that has killed Bibble/ASP.
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Re: Bye Bye AfterShot

Post by albernier »

hello..
why are you sure it's a dead product? Isn't Corel able to make it live?
albernier
afx
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Re: Bye Bye AfterShot

Post by afx »

albernier wrote:Isn't Corel able to make it live?
How?

The developers are gone.
New guys will take more than just a few months (which is already a rather bad delay in this marketplace) until they grok the code. And in contrast to other products that have long cycles, here quick updates to support new cameras are a must.
A raw converter that gets updated every other year is pretty useless.
And if you look at the OpenCL post in the forum, you will see that they just started working to support OpenCL. To integrate that properly into a complex custom multitasking kernel is not something you give to new guys that don't know the code yet....
The plugin API will probably need a serious change as well to make OpenCL available to the plugins. Again a non-trivial task. And AS without the plugins looses a lot of its appeal.

They did not even manage to provide a simple fix to to support the D800E that they officially claim to support. Does not sound good in the customer support department.

It all smells of headless chicken management instead of a well thought out plan. A sane approach to sacking the original developers would have been to wait until after the OpenCL stuff is stable and to have new guys trained on this for quite a while. And I doubt it would really save money.

So here we have a company that has a product it can't handle in a competitive market place. Not good for survival.

Corel might prove all naysayers wrong, but with Corels history, I doubt it.

cheers
afx
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Re: Bye Bye AfterShot

Post by sauron »

You don't fire your development team if you're going to continue development. It's possible they might fold some of the tech into PSP in future, but the ASP product is no longer going anywhere. It's been bought and asset stripped, either to close down a competitor, or to enhance their other products (though in reality, that's unlikely to happen, as they've lost all the knowledge now, and it appears the management aren't the sharpest knives in the drawer). It is, IMHO a remarkably shortsighted decision that basically just cedes a market to Adobe, but that's that. If I were a Corel shareholder, I'd be more than a little irritated by the wasted opportunity, but that's probably why they took the company private - it's done nothing of note since the 90s.
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Re: Bye Bye AfterShot

Post by albernier »

I asked that question - it was not really a question- because I don't understand the plan of Corel, which seems inconsistent..
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AfterShot update coming soon

Post by evelynw »

Hi gang,

My apologies for not responding sooner to your concerns. Not to worry, Corel continues to support AfterShot Pro and are in development for the next planned product update, currently in beta.

Please stay tuned - we'll have more news as we get closer to the release.

Thanks for all your support.

e.
Evelyn (Corel employee)
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Re: Bye Bye AfterShot

Post by texascbx »

Not a good thing when they let it degenerate to this point and then make such a small comment like that, don't worry, be happy.
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