Bye Bye AfterShot

[lundbech]

A friend said to me when he got the e-mail about the Corel purchase of Bibble, "Corel is where good software goes to die". That's the kind of reputation they have.

Yes maybe they do, but somewhere else in this forum someone aome time ago posted evidence which shows, that Corel picks up software that is in fact almost died and tries to keep it alive. That could be the case with Bibble also.

I use ASP because I'm a dedicated Linux user, but I closely follow (free) alternatives like RawTherapee, Darktable and Photivo. I will not be limited to one single tool and I feel sorry for those who have the need to go back to images and image settings made with Bibble 4 or other dead software. I try not to work like that - IMHO it's hopeless in a fast changing world.

ASP is here until it isn't. For now were promised an update so let us see what that will bring.

[afx]

ASP is here until it isn't. For now were promised an update so let us see what that will bring.

There will be surely updates. But when?
If their handling of the D800E is any indication, they don't give a rat's ***...

Not a big deal for those that currently have a working setup and do not have any issues.
But how quickly will they support new cameras?
When are those pesky bugs fixed?

After all, they did not put any development resources in when they bought it. That would have ensured that a new team knows what it is doing. Now they have to learn it all on their own while customers wait for updates. Brilliant strategy.

cheers
afx

[DocBrown]

I will not be limited to one single tool and I feel sorry for those who have the need to go back to images and image settings made with Bibble 4 or other dead software. I try not to work like that - IMHO it's hopeless in a fast changing world.

I'm not clear on your logic. Are you saying that you process every shot with more than one software package? Personally If I decide to revisit a photo, I'll do with what ever tool is the right one at the time. I'm not tied to old software. but to get the most out of your photos, don't take the time learn the nuances of the software? Or are you saying that you don't?

You said earlier "I just have no definitive knowledge of whats going on". Not to sound insulting, but that's a telling statement. As I already stated, there is some history going back long before the Bibble acquisition. If you don't really know what that's all about, why are you trying to pick it apart? There is a reason that LightRoom and Photoshop are the defacto standards. Adobe, as much as I dislike them, is a stable company that delivers what they promise. Corel's history isn't all that stellar in this respect.

[ashmoore]

sad to see this - I switched to LR4 months ago and using one of Sean's plugins there.
LR betas are open, Adobe listen to feed back, post informative updates in their forums, many useful answers come from Adobe employees.
LR properly supports dual screens, desktop/laptop workflows, integrates simply to smugmug and 500px and has massive photo industry support.
Best of all, I'm getting lots of work done.
LR may not be as fast as B5/ASP in raw processing, but my workflow is almost 50% faster.
Good luck with Corel

[GoremanX]

Here's the reality of Bibble/ASP:

I already can no longer install Bibble 5 on my current system because it requires an old libtiff library that is obsolete. So all the images I processed in Bibble 5 are now locked away, all the work I did on them was a waste of time that can't easily be recovered. All those processed images are stuck in a dead format.

Along comes ASP, which is not backwards compatible with Bibble. Somehow, the developers managed to break compatibility with my files BETWEEN MINOR VERSIONS! 1.0.0 and 1.0.1 render my images completely differently for my main camera. More wasted hours of work. I now have to try and guess which new settings will result in the same rendering for thousands of pictures based solely on low quality proofs, and getting it 100% right is impossible.

And now, to make things worse, my entire back catalog of work will soon be locked away in YET ANOTHER dead format! Someday soon, ASP 1.0.1 will no longer install on my system due to some old, incompatible requirement. Then my years of work as a loyal Bibble/ASP user will be locked away in multiple dead formats. This may seem like an exaggeration to the casual users, but any professional photographer knows I'm not exaggerating. Even the remote chance of this coming true is a huge blow to any photography business.

This is the reward I get for sticking with a product for years in my professional career.

No wonder other professionals use Lightroom almost exclusively. This was a very expensive lesson to learn. At this point, I don't even care that Lightroom is less intuitive, more expensive and missing some features from ASP. At least if I'd stuck to Lightroom, my entire back catalog of countless thousands of images wouldn't now be locked away in dead formats.

Can you imagine the user revolt if Adobe dared to do such a thing to its customers?!? And yet here we are with ASP users making excuses on behalf of Corel for doing exactly the same thing.

[roland65]

If you are on Linux, it is not difficult to find the missing library on the Internet and copy it into the Bibble directory or in /usr/lib or /usr/local/lib, depending on your installation.
Use the ldd command to find the library name and version.
Hope this helps,
RB

[afx]

I already can no longer install Bibble 5 on my current system because it requires an old libtiff library that is obsolete.

Just because you run an obscure OS does not mean you can blame the application.
B4 and B5 install just fine on the current Ubuntu 12.4 without any problems.
And I also have B4 running on my Win7 box next to B5 and AS.

cheers
afx

[roland65]

Bibble 5 runs fine on Debian Squeeze too...
RB

[AsterixEtObelix]

Bibble 5 runs fine on Debian Squeeze too...
RB

I confirm it! and that s the same for Bibble 4, I still have it on my Debian box

[Dutchmm]

So maybe, instead of Corel being the place where software goes to die, Corel is a software history theme park, and we users are the cast members (if you like Disney Land) or the re-enactors (if you belong to the Sealed Knot)!

[K-Murat]

Most of the available AfterShot alternatives on the market (LR, Apperture, Bibble, ...) are complex solutions and provide both editing and management capabilities inside the same product.

If someone would prefer a different approach and use separate products for both tasks I can recommend:
- Daminion - as a free photo manager with focus on XMP and image cataloging.
- RawTherapee - as a free RAW editor with descent capabilities that might be enough in most cases.

[stefanve]

Most of the available AfterShot alternatives on the market (LR, Apperture, Bibble, ...) are complex solutions and provide both editing and management capabilities inside the same product.

If someone would prefer a different approach and use separate products for both tasks I can recommend:
- Daminion - as a free photo manager with focus on XMP and image cataloging.
- RawTherapee - as a free RAW editor with descent capabilities that might be enough in most cases.

AfterShot is Bibble 5.5 (or 6 if you will).

I personally like photo manager in AS more than the ones in LR and Apperture, it is far more flexible.

[DocBrown]

Well, all this got me thinking and I realized that I haven't tried LR since v3.0. I trialed 4.1 for 2 days and I'm sold on it. Amazon US has it right now for $117. no brainer, I bought it yesterday. I will continue to upgrade ASP as long as its free, but I will not be paying for an upgrade. ASP 1.0.1.10 may very well be the last version of Bibble/ASP I ever have. As of right now, there really aren't a lot of major differences in my workflow with LR and most of what I've come to really appreciate in ASP is now available, or greatly improved in LR.

Good stuff:
Selective editing. Simple, straight forward. It is layers but they are hidden. I haven't figured out how to go back and change them, but they don't cause performance issues like Layers in ASP.
Ability to Import folders not unlike ASP does, no need to use the catalog. Its a nice feature that I'm already used to in ASP.
Most tools are native that ASP needs plugins for, even has a very powerful ND Grad filter.
Handles the demosaicing of my 7D .cr2 files WAY better. That alone was worth the price of admission. Bibble/ASP never had a problem with my 20D files though.
Output is as good or better than ASP
LR 4.x added RGB to the Curves tool (that's a big one in my view!)
64 bit, runs much faster and smoother on my CoreDuo Win7 machine. Will we ever have 64 bit ASP?

Bad stuff:
Vinetting tool not nearly as good as Vigne plugin.
Bez gives ASP much better tonal control than LR has.
zPerspector offers much greater perspective correction control than LR
LR has nothing available like Nuance, at least not that I can readily find. This is the sole thing that is completely lacking in ASP. I will miss it.
The tools palate is not laid out to my liking. I haven't found a way to customize it. Yet. Even though ASP has an unofficial hack to customize the tool palate, its easy to do and very handy.

Most of the available AfterShot alternatives on the market (LR, Apperture, Bibble, ...) are complex solutions and provide both editing and management capabilities inside the same product.

If someone would prefer a different approach and use separate products for both tasks I can recommend:
- Daminion - as a free photo manager with focus on XMP and image cataloging.
- RawTherapee - as a free RAW editor with descent capabilities that might be enough in most cases.

Tried those. They don't hold a candle to ASP, LR, ACDSee, and a few others out there. For basic work maybe, but not for anything really serious. And they aren't all that complex either. Once you get to understand the power available, you won't go back to basic tools.

[Mel]

Most of the available AfterShot alternatives on the market (LR, Apperture, Bibble, ...) are complex solutions and provide both editing and management capabilities inside the same product.

If someone would prefer a different approach and use separate products for both tasks I can recommend:
- Daminion - as a free photo manager with focus on XMP and image cataloging.
- RawTherapee - as a free RAW editor with descent capabilities that might be enough in most cases.

... For basic work maybe, but not for anything really serious...

Wow! I'm afraid you have never touched Daminion Server. This IS a serious system, a different league definitely not for LR/ACDSee users. As for the standalone version (free) I really appreciate a very clever db structure that is completely independent of drive letter. The database can be saved in any folder of your choice and then you can just copy the folder with photos and db to any drive/pendrive/CD/whatsoever and it still works. Try this with LR.

Basically the idea to use separate apps for raw development and management is very tempting IMO. One doesn't have to change/upgrade DAM application such often as RAW processing app.

-- M.

[DocBrown]

Wow! I'm afraid you have never touched Daminion Server. This IS a serious system, a different league definitely not for LR/ACDSee users. As for the standalone version (free) I really appreciate a very clever db structure that is completely independent of drive letter. The database can be saved in any folder of your choice and then you can just copy the folder with photos and db to any drive/pendrive/CD/whatsoever and it still works. Try this with LR.

Basically the idea to use separate apps for raw development and management is very tempting IMO. One doesn't have to change/upgrade DAM application such often as RAW processing app.

-- M.

There is nothing forcing anyone to use the DAM is ASP, or LR. I've been using two different apps for RAW processing and DAM for years. LR and/or ASP for RAW, ACDSee Pro for my DAM. Not a new concept at all. ACDSee is extremely easy to use right out of the box. Nothing to import, just works off the files system. More important, I find ACDSee support and customer service to be top notch. Funny thing is, Daminion Server looks exactly like ACDSee. The only real difference I see between the feature set is that "Daminion is a true multi-user media management system for small teams and creative professionals, at an affordable price". Why do I need a server based solution? Adds more hardware and complexity when I have no need for it. Oh, and I can move my ACDSee database where ever I want and just point to it. Besides, Daminion is beta. I don't put any real work into any beta system. I'll play with beta software. But I don't consider it "serious" until it's production code. I'm not trusting thousands of images and years of work to something that even the developer isn't happy with yet. To me that makes any comparison moot.