Windows Movie Maker is better than VS X4

[df]

I'm so frustrated with VS X4. I can't seem to do anything more than the most basic of tiny clips. At first I thought my old JVC Mini DV camcorder was the culprit with the interlacing thing all over the place. So I replaced that with a Canon XL-1s, only to see the same problem crop up. So I decided to sell that and get a Canon T3i. The interlacing thing is gone, hopefully it won't come back, but that was only one problem I've had. Since day one I couldn't preview more than just a clip without the video window completely stalling as the scrubber runs across the bottom for a while then the video window finally snaps too, but the video is all stutter stepped (audio marches on with no issues), it skips clips all together, some FX don't play, etc... basically just horrible performance that you'd expect from a very low end machine with the most basic of video players. This is from clips that do not stutter step at all outside of VS. I've recorded in all fps that the T3i offers and every one of them is the same thing, and every one of them doesn't do it in any other program. Movie Maker is fine, Media Player is fine, I've downloaded a trial of Adobe Premier Elements and it's fine. What am I missing?

I've reset the software numerous times. http://corel.force.com/index/articles/e ... y-Defaults
This doesn't really seam to do much, so most of my mucking around apparently doesn't do much either.

My computer more than meets the minimum specs. Win7-64. 3Ghz, dual core, 8gb of RAM, 1gb of Vram, 100gb of free hdd space, even a memory card used for Readyboost.
I've even gone so far as to turn off anything else running on the computer except the firewall, block all internet traffic, go into task manager and set VS priority to High, set anything else that has to be on to normal or lower, and still this thing is just unusable.

I'm really thinking that it's the program and not anything else and I'm beginning to lose patience with Corel all together. If you can offer any advice I would be entirely grateful.

Currently my setting are (not the default settings):
Project Properties window-
Microsoft AVI files
NTSC non-drop frame (30 fps)
Microsoft AVI files
24 bits, 1920 x 1080, 23.976 fps
Frame-based
MJPEG Compressor
Check data rate: 3637 KB/sec
PCM, 44.100 kHz, 16 Bit, Stereo

Project Options window-
Corel Video Studio tab-
NTSC drop frame (29.97 fps)
Perform non-square pixel rendering checked
Audio Channels Stereo

General tab-
Data track: Audio and Video
Frame rate: 23.976 frames/sec
Frame type: Frame-based (but it doesn't seem to make much difference what this is set too)
Frame size - User-defined, 1920 width, 1080 height.

AVI tab-
Compression: MJPEG Comressor (this doesn't seem to matter much either, I've tried DV Video 1 and 2, Microsoft Video 1, and None)
Data type: 24-bit RGB

As I've said, I've changed many of these attributes around trying to find something that lets me work with anything that doesn't look like total garbage but nothing seems to make any difference.

[df]

Update: it would appear that jpegs stall this thing more than anything else. How can a program touting "support for new high-performance hardware, including 2nd generation Intel® Core™ and AMD processors, plus multi-core and GPU optimization" not be able to handle jpegs?

Don't mind me, just thinking out loud. Maybe Corel will actually see this.

[commit]

What kind of video card is that MSI that you have? Maybe it is more Microsoft-friendly. I know personally, I have had some issues with Microsoft-friendly hardware. I am experimenting right now with X5 and a generic Intel video card on my new Gateway, and generic sound card as well. I find that my other puter with Nvidia and a better sound card are more friendly with VS in all versions. Have you tried using VS on a different computer with an Nvidia or Radeon graphics card? I am no expert, but from my experience, I think the hardware makes a big difference.

[df]

What kind of video card is that MSI that you have? Maybe it is more Microsoft-friendly. I know personally, I have had some issues with Microsoft-friendly hardware. I am experimenting right now with X5 and a generic Intel video card on my new Gateway, and generic sound card as well. I find that my other puter with Nvidia and a better sound card are more friendly with VS in all versions. Have you tried using VS on a different computer with an Nvidia or Radeon graphics card? I am no expert, but from my experience, I think the hardware makes a big difference.

Here's the link to it. http://www.msi.com/product/vga/N8400GS- ... v=Overview It's a Nvidia driven card. 1gb vRam, 520mhz clock speed. When I run MSI Afterburner (GPU monitoring utility) the gpu load only goes to 48%, so the card isn't even getting taxed that hard.

[lata]

Update: it would appear that jpegs stall this thing more than anything else. How can a program touting "support for new high-performance hardware, including 2nd generation Intel® Core™ and AMD processors, plus multi-core and GPU optimization" not be able to handle jpegs?

Don't mind me, just thinking out loud. Maybe Corel will actually see this.

Hi

If you wish Corel to know about your problems then contact Corel Support.
I doubt very much that they will read this post.

Unfortunately there are thousands of users that have no problems with the program, we just don’t see them, there are many that post here with video related problems, very few have problems with Jpegs.

I create many slide shows, add jpegs to my videos with no problems.
If it were the program at fault then everyone would have the problem, and we would be able to replicate your problem, but we can't.

That of course doesn't help you.

But surly it has to do with your system and yes maybe a conflict with Video Studio.

So what is different on your PC to everyone else.

Just thinking out loud

[df]

Andrew from Corel Support contacted me via email. He had me supply my computer specs, verified I had the latest updates for VS, QuickTime, and a few other things, had me reinstall VS, etc... all the typical stuff. Same issues. I then uninstalled and reinstalled my video card. Same issues. He then had me trial VS X5 and it has the exact same performance, crappy. I've noticed that one thing that VS is not doing is it's not using my video card at all. A GPU monitoring program came with my card and I can use it to monitor the temp, voltage used, and GPU usage. Every other visual program on my computer affects the GPU usage, but not VS. Moving a window on my desktop has more of an affect. It's no wonder it's underperforming.

I just reinstalled my entire operating system this morning, installed the video card, installed VS and a small handful of updates from Microsoft (mainly what the OS installed before I told it to stop). Same results. Hopefully Andrew and Corel will come up with something. At least now I know it's the program not talking to the video card.

[df]

I just want to be clear that since writing the original posting in this thread Andrew from Corel and I have exchanged a number of emails regarding this issue and I get the impression that Corel is on the case here. My last posting was just an update that I failed to state that clearly.

[lata]

Hi Dan

Thanks for keeping us up to date, hope Corel Support come up with a solution asap.

[df]

Well they came up with a solution. I have to batch process all video files coming out of the camera because apparently my Canon dSLR doesn't produce the right files. The files I gave to Corel (now passed on to a few different techs, not just Andrew) were all shot at 23.976 fps, and they claim that's the issue, but the program has issues with any frame rate that I've shot with, which is all available for my T3i. If I batch process the files to 30 fps I get files that the program doesn't stutter on.

I wish they would have told me that before I decided to reinstall my OS to try to resolve this issue.

[df]

Well I just got off the phone with a Corel tech and while he's closing my ticket, I'm still not very happy. His solution is that's just how it's supposed to work. If someone would indulge me and download a small video clip and try to preview it in a timeline in VideoStudio I'd appreciate it. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/68289253/VS%20E ... I_0065.zip Anything I put from my Canon camera previews horribly, but renders ok as far as I can tell. But it's near impossible to do anything since you can't preview anything you've done until you render it in an output file.

The tech hinted that my computer's hardware may not be up to the task. I'd sure like to know what part of it isn't, and also why is VS only using 22% of my CPU and typically only 10% (if that) of my GPU.

[canuck]

Downloaded the clip and played it in the preview. No problem that I could see.

BTW, there have been lots of reports of problems(in other software packages) with the video files taken with a Canon digital camera.

[lata]

Hi

Yep that plays ok sort of............

Maybe I should have asked for the properties of the video file earlier, don’t know why i didn't?
The properties you gave in the first post related to AVI

I have a Canon 7D which produces the same types of video file.
I have to say that I do not record to 23.9 fps but prefer 25fps ( I am pal) because most of the standard video templates do not use 23.9fps
guess you would use 29fps

Video Studio does not fully recognise these types, is my best description.
I believe Canon tweak the codecs for their own use which can cause problems with other software.
So don’t blame VS to much
You will be hard pressed to find conversion settings to create a Mov using H264
That is to duplicate the original video file.

Check the properties, notice the compression details are blank, they should show H264.
Because of this the option Share Create Video File - Same as first clip is not available.

Adding a 23fps to the timeline at 29fps is not gonna play well.
Modify the project properties to use AVI -- X-Vid at 23fps 1920 x 1080 improve playback for me.

hindsight is a wonderful thing

[Kingston]

I tried what you tried, Trevor, in X5, but it still wasn't smooth, particularly at the end as the guy walks out.

After running it through Videoredo, which I had change the video to an MP4 container with no recode of video but a recode of audio from LPCM to AAC, the clip plays back smoothly in X5.

[lata]

Hi

I took more notice of the frames there does seem to be a few duplicate frames.
By nudging the digital clock you can move frame by frame
Concentrating on the 0:00:04:00 and again at 00:00:04:08 and 00:00:04:17 there does seem to be a duplicate frame. But at 0:00:04:00 it looks like some frames are missing, the guy walking out seems to move a bit to much for the single frame.
This plays back as a small blip.

I then view the entire clip frame by frame and found many duplicates or missing frames.

Very strange.........

So is this clip directly from the camera or have you re-rendered it again?

[df]

Thanks for the feedback guys.

This is straight from the camera, no modifications. But if the guy at the end walking off is the only blip then you're DEFINITELY not seeing what I'm seeing. In VS if you try to preview it (drag it to the timeline, play to timeline. Or just play the clip without dragging to the timeline) it goes fine for about a half a second then the image freezes and unfreezes (best way I can describe it) playing about 3 or 5 frames per second. If I have a longer project going it will freeze completely for 2-3 seconds at random intervals. This is just the video part of it, the audio and the scrubber march on as if everything's fine. Most of the time the video does end at the same time as the audio at the proper point (just skipping or dropping tons of frames) but occasionally the video will be playing catch up to the audio by the end of it all.

Very strange indeed.

The last tech also told me that the previewing engine in X4 is the same as X5, so upgrading wouldn't solve this issue (I did trial it before reinstalling my OS with the same results).