Stuttering video when reviewing clip or project

[lata]

Hi Carroll

Ok
a Mini DV Camcorder records to tape as DV-Avi
When you connect via firewire you should choose DV as the capture format.
The video is transferred to the pc, no re-coding takes place, what you have on the camera is what you get on the pc, DV-Avi. at 13 Gb per hour.

The Field Order for DV-Avi is Lower Field you should ensure you use Lower Field throughout your editing.
Later versions of Video Studio use Upper Field for the default templates, you should use the Custom option or Make Movie Templates Manager to create your own template using Lower Field.
You should use Lower Field when converting to DVD Mpeg2

In addition I notice your video is using 4:3 aspect ratio, from Settings—deselect “Enable Widescreen 16:9”

1 / After transferring the video as DV-Avi do you have problems playing the video before any editing.?
2 / Does it play in both Clip and project playback mode. Sorry if this has been asked before.
3 / If you do have problems playing on the pc are you able to connect the camera directly to your TV set, do you have any problems with playback?

[Carroll]

Hi Carroll

..............In addition I notice your video is using 4:3 aspect ratio, from Settings—deselect “Enable Widescreen 16:9”

1 / After transferring the video as DV-Avi do you have problems playing the video before any editing.?
2 / Does it play in both Clip and project playback mode. Sorry if this has been asked before.
3 / If you do have problems playing on the pc are you able to connect the camera directly to your TV set, do you have any problems with playback?

1 / When I play the raw .avi using WMP or Media Player Classic it has the stutters. When I play the raw .mpg in both players it has the stutters but, they are somewhat subdued compared to the .avi. When I play the raw clip in VS in clip mode, audio is all that I get with no movement of visual part until I stop it playing then it jumps to catch up to where the audio stopped.

2 / Placing the raw video in the time line there's a 50/50 chance the visual with not move with the audio. The stuttering is there and there are times that the video will stutter so bad that the playing of it will come to a halt. On occasion I have grabbed the scrubber and pulled the video back some and it plays through the previous stutter rather smoothy but again, that happens infrequently. In project mode it plays as it does in WMP etc. with the stuttering.

3 / I do not have any way to play it on my TV.

I did a search through the forum's different threads and did find several issues where the amount of RAM played a role in similar circumstances with VSs performance with XP OS. In one thread discussion on a figure of 4 GB of RAM is needed for XP SP3 to properly handle VS Pro 2 and up.
I have 1.5 GB of RAM. I have ordered 4 X 1 GB of RAM. WXP will probably only recognize 3.5 GB of the 4 but it will still use all 4.

I never had a problem with my VS Pro 2. I didn't have a problem with VS Pro 4 until last summer. From what I've read adding and keeping the videos and their corresponding .mpg for You Tube got to where I am now.

[RobertOZ]

Hi Carroll,

I still think all your issues are caused by your system. You are running a single core CPU, which is grossly underpowered for the tasks you require it to complete, the fact that you have the same issues with WMP and MPC would appear to confirm this. Increasing your ram will help, but you may still see stuttering because your GPU cannot keep up with the speed necessary to view your videos, especially AVI which create massive files, also your video card would need upgrading, you would need to investigate what cards are compatible with your system.
My laptop is twice as powerful as your PC, and that stutters when working on large projects, so I invested in a new desktop PC, even that stutters at times when viewing/editing large HD projects.
In reality, upgrading your present PC is throwing money down the drain, also are you aware that support for XP is being withdrawn by Microsoft early next year, so there will be no further updates.
As each new NLE is released, the system resources required seem to increase exponentially

Start saving your pennies and invest in a new system, if possible try and stay with Win7 as there seem to be issues with Win8, which could turn into a Vista revisited situation.

Robert

[Carroll]

Hi Robert

Thank you for your reply. I know my system is way out of date and today, is underpowered. I have been checking into a new system but, financially, that's way in the future.

In the hard light of day I am wasting money however, I'm in the same position as having that old car because you can't afford anything else at the time. You just keep patching it up until, it makes the choice for you. I did know about the ending of support for XP but again, I had to treat that the same as I do with patching up my system.

After installing the new RAM if there is no improvement then I'll stop taking Videos and remove VS and remove all my other videos and mpgs from my system then start again when I get a new one.

Thanks again Robert for the information.

Carroll

[lata]

Hi Carroll

I asked about TV playback just to rule out a problem with the camera’s recordings.
Your camera should have an AV out terminal, this is connected to the TV “A/V In”, three round sockets, Red/White and Yellow, Yellow is the Video input.

If you do not have a cable, how does the movie play viewing the camera?

Carroll you keep mentioning raw Avi, you do not have raw avi it is DV.Avi
DV.avi (Digital Video) is one of the oldest of codecs, it is provided by Microsoft (I think).

At 13 Gb per hour compared to raw at 65 Gb per hour.

DV-Avi is a lossless format and as such is probably the best to edit.
I have been working with DV-Avi since 2000ish, I do not think duel core pc’s were available at that time all were single core.

Yes it was a little slow to render but simply playing the video back was ok.
Increasing the ram for me improved the editing times, you know the time it takes the program to do things after hitting a button, it did not improve render times, the CPU capability was limiting that.
It may however improve the playback, but I don’t know?

At that time rendering a DV-Avi to mpeg2 took about 12 times I was creating SVCD at the time a 40 minute movie took 8 hours to render.
If you were to purchase a new pc you could expect real time rendering, that’s how things have improved.

But playing back the video was Ok, at least I do not remember having any major issues.
So I was just trying to rule out any problems with the source material given that you seem to be also having similar problems with standard Mpeg2 playback. (4Gb per hour)

Are you able to copy the DV-Avi files to another PC to check the quality, if its ok then a replacement PC is on the cards?

[Carroll]

Hi Trevor

I asked about TV playback just to rule out a problem with the camera’s recordings.
Your camera should have an AV out terminal, this is connected to the TV “A/V In”, three round sockets, Red/White and Yellow, Yellow is the Video input.
If you do not have a cable, how does the movie play viewing the camera?

Yes, I guess I do have the TV cable now that you mention the 3 coloured sockets. They're still in the unopened bag they came in. The AV OUT terminal is right below the DV one on the camera.

When you say "if you do not have a cable how does the movie play viewing the camera" I just can't figure out what you're asking me.

Carroll you keep mentioning raw Avi, you do not have raw avi it is DV.Avi
DV.avi (Digital Video) is one of the oldest of codecs, it is provided by Microsoft (I think).
At 13 Gb per hour compared to raw at 65 Gb per hour.

I used raw .avi and raw .mpg just as a terminology to it being straight from the camera and played in the players without being through Video Studio or edited in some way. It's obvious now I didn't have to put it that way. I also don't refer to .avi as DV.avi as the extension on my download is always .avi so that's why I refer to it simply as .avi.

Are you able to copy the DV-Avi files to another PC to check the quality, if its ok then a replacement PC is on the cards?
No I haven't as my friends PCs are either 512 or 1 GB RAM. They come to use mine when they have a large school project or whatever, that theirs will not handle.

Carroll

[Carroll]

Well I received and installed the 4 GB of RAM. The system only recognizes 3.4 GB of it but, that was expected. It has certainly improved response times and cleared up "most" of the stuttering I experienced in working with VSP 4. I have re-downloaded the ones that were giving my problems and they come out 100% better then the first ones.

There still are some problems though which I don't think are RAM related. After viewing videos on YouTube and on my system using WMP etc I have noticed a correlation of stuttering. The stuttering/hesitation happens at regular intervals viewing both. It's roughly 2 seconds apart. In watching both I know when the next stutter will happen. As the video progresses I can sit here and in timing the stutters I can say "now" and be right on with each stutter or hesitation that happens. I don't view in HD, I have defaulted viewing to 360p and have gone down to 2?? and still same result.

So, to have this happen on YouTube and in videos on my system there is something else at play. I don't know if it's a refresh rate problem or what it is. Mine was set 10 yrs ago and never touched by me so I am unfamiliar with changing anything in relation to these rates.

Anyway this where I am right now.

Carroll

[lata]

Hi Carroll

Apologies but I seem to have missed your previous reply on 1st April
Good news that the increased Ram has improved things.

As for the stuttering video…

Your video is DV-Avi, this uses Lower Field Order.
Unfortunately Video Studio defaults to Upper Field, so if you choose Share Create Video File – DVD then you will effectively change the field order, this will impact on the quality, not necessarily causing the stutter but I feel is worth mentioning.

What format and properties did you use to upload to You Tube?
If you play that video on your pc does it show the stuttering

Most are HD and would use widescreen 16:9, your video is 4:3 and you should use that aspect ratio. Unless of course you wish to convert to 16:9.

Can you provide a link to your YouTube video that is causing the stuttering.

[Carroll]

Hi Trevor.

No apologies necessary. I just figured you were busy but, you'd get around to me in time.

What format and properties did you use to upload to You Tube?
If you play that video on your pc does it show the stuttering YES

In the Share mode "Create Video File" I use "Custom" from the drop down menu. To save the file I choose "MPEG files(*.mpg)" The save options for that are shown below.

MPEG files
24 bits, 720 x 480, 29.97 fps
Lower Field First
(DVD-NTSC), 16:9
Video data rate: Variable (Max. 8000 kbps)
LPCM Audio, 48000 Hz, Stereo

Most are HD and would use widescreen 16:9, your video is 4:3 and you should use that aspect ratio. Unless of course you wish to convert to 16:9.

I have "Widescreen (16.9)" checked on the Settings drop down menu but in 'Preferences & Project Properties' I have "keep aspect ratio" in both set to 4:3.

Can you provide a link to your YouTube video that is causing the stuttering.

These are the last 3 that I uploaded only because they had the least stuttering and my group wanted to see them. If they hadn't then I would not have uploaded them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9w63yKw7V0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikEWQDAwnUk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoRCTP-Yx4k

I have 5 videos (.avi) on my comp. that I haven't uploaded because of bad stuttering. Contrary to what I said in my previous post I have only re-downloaded one of the ones giving me trouble.

Carroll

[canuck]

In your post on Mar 31 you state that you have the stutters in the "raw" files you captured from your DV camcorder when playing with non Roxio players. So anything you do after that will of course always have the stutter. That means that your problem lies with your capture and until you solve that problem anything else is meaningless.
What the stutters in your videos seem to indicate is a lot of missing (dropped) frames. Those are often due to a system not being able to keep up with the incoming stream and/or the system not being fast enough to process and store the incoming stream. A heavily fragmented drive can slow the system and create dropped frames.

[lata]

Hi Carroll

Canuck, good point regarding dropped frames, I never thought of that being Dv-Avi capture with no re-coding required.

Carroll when you capture do you monitor the Dropped Frame Counter, you have to activate this counter from Preference (F6)-Capture tab
It will show in the information panel during capture, last icon in the list.
The counter should remain at zero, there should be no dropped frames.

[Carroll]

Hi Carroll

Canuck, good point regarding dropped frames, I never thought of that being Dv-Avi capture with no re-coding required.

Carroll when you capture do you monitor the Dropped Frame Counter, you have to activate this counter from Preference (F6)-Capture tab
It will show in the information panel during capture, last icon in the list.
The counter should remain at zero, there should be no dropped frames.

Canuck- Thank you for you post. I defragged my drive last night and it went from 26 GB to 37 GB free.
-----------
Trevor. No I do not keep track of whether there are any frames dropped. It was something I just never thought to do and I basically moused over that Icon Saturday night and found out what it was called. Not the sharpest tack in the pack at times.

Checking the "Preferences(F6)/ "Capture" tab, the "show drop frame information" box is checked by default.

Carroll

[lata]

Hi Carroll

The icons are not the easiest to identify, Corel seem to keep them a secret.
So floating the mouse is useful.

I assume you have run a quick capture as a test and that you do not show any Dropped frames.

[Carroll]

Hi Carroll

The icons are not the easiest to identify, Corel seem to keep them a secret.
So floating the mouse is useful.

I assume you have run a quick capture as a test and that you do not show any Dropped frames.

Trevor, you should know by now to never assume anything regarding my use of VS.

When I first got VS 2 I did the quick capture and all that but, since I upgraded to 4 I stopped doing a lot of what I used to do and why that is I don't know. I film something then hook up the camera and download it. I still have the tapes of the worst ones for stuttering so, I will download one of them and go through the pre-download steps and pay attention to the frames dropped. I was going to upload one to my Flicker page but, I just have the free one so 90 sec/150 MB is all I'm allowed.

Does VS make a report file for each video that is downloaded to it?

Also did you check out my YouTube videos I gave the URL for in a previous post?

Carroll

[Carroll]

I have done two downloads of one of the stuttering videos.

The first was a quick capture.
- scenes 9

The second was just a download to check frames dropped.
- Duration 00:18:12
- scenes 10
- Format: Microsoft AVI files -- OpenDML
- Frame rate: 29.970 f/sec
- Data rate 3502.13 kpbs
- Atributes: 24 bits, 720 x 480, 4:3
- Total frames - 32,735
- Frames dropped: 93

Carroll