VS pro x4 - Losing quality when rendering/burning

[Brent H]

Hey everyone

First off, I'm a noob to this whole thing and the question has probably been answered, but the other forum posts I've looked at haven't really clarified it for me

I'm working on a video to propose to my girlfriend with next month, and I have all the edits done and the project is complete (including the DVD menu), but every time I render it it loses quality, and then when I burn a disk it loses even more quality. I'm just burning it onto a standard DVD so I know it won't stay fully HD, but it's pixelated in several parts which really is annoying.

Some details:

Original file properties (.mts):
File Format: NTSC HDMV
Video Type: H.264 Video, Upper Field First
Attributes: 24 bits, 1920 x 1080, 16:9
Frame Rate: 29.970 frames/sec
Data Rate: Variable bit rate (Max. 20899 kbps)

I don't know what camera they were shot on, a friend did the shots for me and I didn't think I'd need to know the camera specs.

I've tried rendering using several of the default options in the Share tab (MPEG Optimizer, DVD, MP4). So far, MP4 has worked the best.

When I burn it to a disk, though, it gets really bad. I tried burning straight from the project and burning from the rendered video file. Burning from the rendered file was less pixelated, but still not as clean as I want it to be.

I've tried messing with the project settings (turned compression off, that sort of thing), but it doesn't seem to help. I'd keep experimenting but I'm just doing it on my school lap top so rendering even the 8 minute video takes almost an hour which is frustrating when I need to do school work.


Anyways, if you need more information you're going to have to tell me where to find it haha. Like I said, complete beginner here.

[Ken Veal]

Make sure that you are using the same properties in your project and when in the burn module.I think you should be using lower field first, I use a constant bit rate of 7000.

[Ken Berry]

I think you should be using lower field first

Sorry Kenneth, but that is totally wrong advice... His original video is Upper Field First, and one of the basic rules of video editing is to maintain the same Field Order throughout. So he has to make sure his DVD-compatible mpeg-2 is also Upper Field First.

So Brent, when you produce your DVD-compatible mpeg-2, it should have a frame size of 720 x 480 (NTSC standard def DVD frame size), Upper Field First, Frame Rate 29.97 (as per the original), 16:9, and a data rate (bitrate) of 8000 kbps. If it is only the one short video, you could make it constant bitrate 8000 kbps, but it could also be variable with a maximum of 8000 kbps. Audio could be Dolby (which I assume the original is).

There is not point in making an mp4 as that is not a DVD-compatible format. It has to be mpeg-2.

One thing I am not sure about is your school laptop. Your original video is AVCHD which is the most demanding of all current consumer video formats, and you have to have at least a decent Core 2 Duo to be able to process it properly. By the sounds of though, with 8 minutes of video taking nearly an hour to render, your laptop could be part of the problem. Do you have any idea of its specifications? Or can you give a brand and model number?

[Brent H]

System:
Gateway model MD2614u
AMD Turion x2 Dual-Core Mobile RM-72 2.10 Ghz processor
3 gb RAM
ATI Radeon 3200 graphics card


I tried rendering it in AVCHD last night, and the picture came out a lot better but the sound was messed up whenever there was a fade. It would click really loudly at the start of crossfades etc.

So if I burn it with an MPEG 2, I should render the file as an MPEG 2? Or use the "same as first clip" button which would render it as an .mts?

Thanks for your help!

[lata]

Hi

A standard DVD uses Mpeg2 files, so ultimately that is the type that your project will be converted to.
Converting it to this format before burning the dvd is the approach that many of us use.

To convert the project, to Mpeg2 use Share Create Video File DVD-DVD Video 16:9.

Now play the video file on the pc to check quality, if its good, burn a disc

How
Start a new project, nothing in the timelines
Share Create disc
Add video file, choose the new Mpg file created earlier.

By the way we assume you are in NTSC country, US?

[Brent H]

Alright I'll give that a shot when I get out of class. When I tried the DVD option last time, though, it had the same problem I mentioned above with the audio... it would click whenever I would crossfade/dip the audio during the movie. Is there a way to fix that? I tried just redoing the audio, but when I burned it the problem came back.

And yep, US of A for me.

[lata]

Hi

After Share Create Video file DVD, from the save window choose tyhe Options button, deselect Smart Render.
May cure the out of sync issue.

Otherwise render to same as first clip, then convert the Mts file to DVD.

[Brent H]

Alright, tried both of those. Better picture quality for sure, but the audio is messed up in both. I have some sounds from nature (birds chirping etc.) that I crossfaded with the audio from the first clip because my friend was talking in the beginning of the clip. The audio plays fine when I'm in editing mode, but the second I render it to anything other than MP4 it has really loud clicks and scratches whenever the fade starts or changes (I have a crossfade, and then I fade the second clip out into a song and it clicks as it fades out). I've tried not fading the audio, and it still clicks when it switches over to the clip's audio (but not the .wav song...). It's really rather annoying.

The Audio:
Dolby Digital
3,411, 411 Samples
48000 Hz
Layer: None
Bit rate: 384 kbps

How can I stop that? That's why I've been rendering in .mp4 trying to get better picture... every time I do anything different it gets those weird clicks.

Here's my project file (would I have to upload the clips for it to work, though?): http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5335120/Road%20 ... eo%205.VSP

Sorry I'm such a noob at this haha.

[Brent H]

Well I fixed the audio by just recording it into another program and putting it back into the video with the fade already done. I think I found the source of the pixelation, too... I had run the Mercalli proDAD stabilization plugin on some of the clips because they were filmed on a glide cam. Taking that out helped, but it's kinda too bad because the stabilzation was needed. But, better to be shaky than to be pretty badly pixelated I guess.

Overall, that definitely helped the picture out. I still feel like it's lower quality than other standard def. stuff though :/


EDIT: Just rendered in AVCHD to an .m2t file, it looks great. But how can I put that on a DVD without losing all the quality? Or, if push comes to shove, how could I get it to play on my computer if a DVD just won't cut it quality-wise?

[Ken Berry]

Do you have a Blu-Ray player or Play Station 3?

[Brent H]

Nope, unfortunately not. I'll be getting one soon, but the place that I'm going to actually play the video only has standard DVD or computer hookup. So, just burn it into standard MPEG-2? Is there a way to play the HD file on the computer, though, in case that dips the quality too much?

[Brent H]

Alright, sorry for multiple postings. Burning the AVCHD to a DVD with a constant 8000kbps helped quality a lot. It's not as good as I was hoping for, but there aren't any lines or artifacts in it anymore which is good enough for me.

Thanks for putting up with my blundering through the project haha.

[newfielander]

Brent, I'm surprised this haven't been mentioned to you before, but i have been in the very same boat as you, I wasn't impressed at the quality lost when going from HD to SD ,which what happens when footage is put on a dvd ,well I was shocked when a guy told me NOT to judge your outcome on a computer screen, try it on a good TV. Maybe you done this already, but i didn't notice. Worth a try, let me know if there's any improvement in quality.

[Brent H]

Brent, I'm surprised this haven't been mentioned to you before, but i have been in the very same boat as you, I wasn't impressed at the quality lost when going from HD to SD ,which what happens when footage is put on a dvd ,well I was shocked when a guy told me NOT to judge your outcome on a computer screen, try it on a good TV. Maybe you done this already, but i didn't notice. Worth a try, let me know if there's any improvement in quality.

Thanks man. Yeah I've tried using my 37" HDTV as a monitor/played the DVD on it and it was actually worse in some cases because the pixelated segments were larger. I think with this last attempt it's mostly fixed... still not completely satisfied, but it's probably as good as it's gonna get til I can burn it onto a bluray disk

[lata]

Hi Brent

Referring to the audio.....
Just caught up with your posts, i have downloaded the VSP and can see the edits you have applied
I am struggling a little as i do not have your files.

You seem to have used Split Audio which I am sure there was a good reason, but seem to have used immediately below the parent clip?

Dragging the first two clips in the voice track to apply a cross fade seems to use the Sound Mixer. however the lowest level is not zero its -36db which may still be noticeable, especially if the volume is high on the last frame, you may hear a click at this point.

Viewing the second and third clip using the two tracks is the way to go, slightly overlapping the clips. then use the Fade Ramps from the Edit Tab will create a true fade (turn off Sound Mixer)