Budget hd camcorder

[Pete Waterman]

Hi All
While I am waiting forVS x5 to arrive from Corel, Im looking to get a Budget HD camcorder!
Has anyone got any ideas for a reasonable budget (entry level)one and what to look for?
Im not fussed if its new or a good used one! Ive been looking on E-blag but just got confused??
Sorry if this is not the correct thread but it is sort of VS related??
thanks
Pete

[pvreditor]

A couple years ago, I had a Panasonic Lumix DMC-ZS7 digital camera. This is now obsolete and was replaced by the ZS10, which in turn is being replaced by the ZS20. The ZS10 is being blown out at places like Costco for $200. (These cameras might be sold as the TZ7, TZ10 and TZ20 in some countries.)

Anyway, back to the Panasonic Lumix DMC-ZS7. I got it mainly for still image photos and was delightfully surprised at how good it was for video. It was capable of 720p HD video, which it could record in either AVCHD Lite or Motion-JPEG formats. I could not get AVCHD Lite to work with VideoStudio Pro x3, but Motion-JPEG worked perfectly. The ZS7 turned out to take good photos and good videos -- neither was great but both were good. This was fantastic, because I could carry one camera that fit easily into a pocket, and it would do me good either for photos or videos. Here is a video I shot completely on the Panasonic DMC-ZS7 and edited on VS Pro x3 (using Motion-JPEG):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1x-SqsET_A

That's me asking the interview questions and doing the occasionally clumsy narration. The audio on this camera was surprisingly good, and the wide-angle (25mm) lens let me work close.

Not a bad video camera for $200, huh? And think that it conveniently takes quite decent photos, with a good flash and reasonable control. Sadly, I inexplicably got a chip in the lens of this camera and I no longer use it. I bought a roughly similar Nikon as a replacement (Coolpix S8100), but it's not nearly as good with video and the photos are perhaps about the same quality. I very much wish that I'd just bought another Panasonic ZS7.

I've read that the Panasonic ZS10 had more noise in the photos, but I don't know about the video. The ZS20 is said to be better with noise, but again... I don't know about the video quality.

So don't overlook the possibility of a digital still-image camera that can be small, take good photos and decent video. In my experience, they do exist.

Bob Kovacs
http://www.bobkovacs.com

[Pete Waterman]

Thanks for that pvreditor
I did look at this one a while ago but the sound put me off I first saw the review one cameralabs
( http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Panas ... w_HD.shtml )
about 3:24 second in shows the sound (hu shows the sound! you know what i mean!)
I use a DSLR for my Photos so not to fussed about the quailty of photos taken just video & sound!
I need to get one soon as my canon will only take silent movies now??

[pvreditor]

Thanks for that pvreditor
I did look at this one a while ago but the sound put me off I first saw the review one cameralabs
( http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Panas ... w_HD.shtml )
about 3:24 second in shows the sound (hu shows the sound! you know what i mean!)
I use a DSLR for my Photos so not to fussed about the quailty of photos taken just video & sound!
I need to get one soon as my canon will only take silent movies now??

Yes, that is exactly the camera I have and I'd like to get one of those again. At 3:24, you get to see how good the video looks. Although the audio in that segment is not as good as the prior audio, the big reason for that is the added room reverberation that he gets from being about a meter from the camera. (He probably had been using a lavalier mic clipped to his shirt prior to that.) The audio is still clear, and the video from the camera is pretty darn good.

I also have better still-image cameras than the Panasonic ZS7. My wife has a Nikon D700 dSLR and, in addition to the Nikon Coolpix S8100 I previously mentioned, I have a Canon G7 that I keep in my desk at work. The D700 and G7 definitely take better photos than the Panasonic ZS7, just as my Canon HF-S30 camcorder takes better video than the ZS7. But the ZS7 was so versatile with both photos and video that I found I carried it more often than my other cameras. Whatever I wanted, it did it competently and fit in a pocket.

Anyway, that's my suggestion for you. I assume that the ZS7 (known as the TZ10 in the UK) is no longer available. I really don't know how well the replacements work for video but am very curious to find out.

Bob Kovacs
http://www.bobkovacs.com

[Pete Waterman]

Thank for you suggestion Bob I do appreciate your input!
Im looking at somthing like the JVC Everio GZ-HM445 records to sd card
or the JVC GZ HD 500SEK, but ive heard bad things about Camcorders with HDD!
but never having owned one or used one I dont know if they are true?
Ive also considered the Sony HDR-XR105 Camcorder again HDD
any advice is very welcome & appreciated
Pete

[pvreditor]

Thank for you suggestion Bob I do appreciate your input!
Im looking at somthing like the JVC Everio GZ-HM445 records to sd card
or the JVC GZ HD 500SEK, but ive heard bad things about Camcorders with HDD!
but never having owned one or used one I dont know if they are true?
Ive also considered the Sony HDR-XR105 Camcorder again HDD
any advice is very welcome & appreciated
Pete

Pete, I highly recommend a camcorder that uses an SD card. I been shooting with such video cameras for four years and it makes the workflow very simple. They also use less power and have fewer moving parts to break than a hard-disk camcorder. SD is the way to go, in my experience.

Bob Kovacs
http://www.bobkovacs.com

[Pete Waterman]

Thank Bob this is why the JVC Everio GZ-HM445 was top of my list, & yes as you say less to go wrong!
I take it that the lack of replys to my quest all other members on this forum use High end video cameras??
Another thing Bob should i look for a camera that records in P or I
As far as i understand CRT TVs use interlacing and the new Plasma /LCD TVs use progressive,
so would it work better with the Plasma /LCD TVs if I go for a 1080P camera?

[pvreditor]

Thank Bob this is why the JVC Everio GZ-HM445 was top of my list, & yes as you say less to go wrong!
I take it that the lack of replys to my quest all other members on this forum use High end video cameras??
Another thing Bob should i look for a camera that records in P or I
As far as i understand CRT TVs use interlacing and the new Plasma /LCD TVs use progressive,
so would it work better with the Plasma /LCD TVs if I go for a 1080P camera?

I don't think there's too many in this forum who use cameras much beyond the Canon HF-S30 I use. I am considering getting a higher-end camcorder, mostly because I do some freelancing and clients often ask for certain types of cameras -- sometimes by make & model. BTW, cheap "4K" video cameras are on the horizon. These have resolution of approximately 4000 x 2000 pixels... four times the current HD camcorders.

As for recording in either P (progressive scan) or I (interlace scan), it's probably easier on your computer to edit and render in I. With camcorders of this quality, there is probably not more than the tiniest of visual differences between 1080i and 1080p. But the bottom line for me is that I would get the camera with the features that best appeal to me, and not sweat the P or I.

One thing I've learned over the years is that it is easy to get good video but hard to get good audio. The difference between a video that seems "professional" versus one that is clearly "amateur" is that a professional video will almost always have good audio. Getting good audio is much more time consuming than getting good video. What I'm trying to say is that you should consider the audio performance of the camcorder you want to buy, and make sure it has an audio input. A decent lavalier mic in the US costs $25, so I pack one in my camcorder kit. And I almost always work as close as possible to get the best audio when using only the camera mics.

Bob Kovacs
http://www.bobkovacs.com

[Ken Berry]

Getting good audio is much more time consuming than getting good video. What I'm trying to say is that you should consider the audio performance of the camcorder you want to buy, and make sure it has an audio input.

That of course presumes that the ambient audio where you are filming has an importance of its own e.g. wedding vows or speeches or other performances. And I acknowledge this is important for many people. But personally, it is very rare where I will use the ambient audio for anything except adding a little atmosphere, and mixed with background music I add. I almost invariably do my audio, including voiceovers, using audio software. This often includes extracting the audio I want to keep and processing it to achieve decent quality before reinserting in the project. For the rest, I more often than not just mute the audio on most of my clips.

But again, I acknowledge that that is just me...

[Pete Waterman]

Thanks Bob and no way do I consider myself a pro or semi pro, I've seen some of the videos people on here have made & I'm amazed!
I do this for the fun of it! I've used VS since ver 7 thou I've not done it now for a while! ( ver 11.5 plus) but now due to illness I have time to get back to it,
My trusty old canon stopped recording sound & so I need a new one hence all the question!
No sound! ummm Oscar winner there then? LOL
yes I see what you are saying about the sound it does need to be good for a pro output but reasonable would be good enough for what I do!
Family occasions and a local car club events, and a holiday if I can get one!
Thanks for your input Ken and yes this is just the sort of thing the voice recorded on the video would be used for wedding vows or speeches,


I guess I'll keep looking!
Thanks
Pete