How Do We Stay Informed?

[afx]

But you are complaining about the wrong things.

I'm complaining about the lack of communication to the customers. About not keeping the customers involved. Treating us like cash cows who don't deserve to know what's being done to our chosen workflow. Anything else you've misunderstood is pure imagination.

To quote you:
"Dare I mention the secret transition from Bibble to AfterShot that took us all by surprise and wreaked havoc with our workflow?"
What would any advance communication have changed for the users?
Nothing. Nada, Zilch.
Because no matter when it was announced, the changes you need to adjust to are the same.

cheers
afx

[GoremanX]

To quote you:
"Dare I mention the secret transition from Bibble to AfterShot that took us all by surprise and wreaked havoc with our workflow?"
What would any advance communication have changed for the users?
Nothing. Nada, Zilch.
Because no matter when it was announced, the changes you need to adjust to are the same.

So what you're saying is, the status quo is good. The level of information we receive is more than adequate. No-one would have appreciated knowing what was going on with our chosen workflow ahead of time, because you've deemed it completely unnecessary from a practical perspective. And the part where you said I was complaining about user plugin repositories was gibberish. Have I got it about right?

That's a very interesting point of view, especially from someone who already has inside knowledge to begin with and isn't left in the dark.

You've publicly stated that you're part of the team of secret beta testers with inside knowledge. You have official inside knowledge that you occasionally dribble out as cryptic hints. In my opinion, that gives official weight to these statements.

[silvershoes]

The big software publishers who cater to professionals have already learned the value of keeping their customers informed, and that's part of what makes these publishers more appealing to professionals. I was really hoping the move to Corel would bring us that kind of interaction. If that's not the case, then perhaps I should just look at the alternatives.

I'm sick of being left in the dark.

For pity's sake. Professionals get on with the job, they don't sit around waiting to be spoonfed and crying - that's for amateurs. And that's never more true than of photography. True creatives find a way, even if it means using duct tape (or even better, gaffer tape).

It seems to me any software house, including Corel and the dreaded Adobe, is more likely to respond to specific requests for specific features, not tantrums about being left in the dark.

You have a message board, Google, rss, and blogs. I wouldn't touch social media with a 10 foot pole, but people do. You have software. You have plugins. So what is it exactly that you want to do that you can't?

[GoremanX]

How telling that someone who's never posted on this forum before suddenly decides to join up just to reply to this thread... did you do a random search for it? Or was it sheer luck that you came upon this discussion right off?

You can call me all the childish names you want (spoonfed crybaby? ...indeed), but the fact remains that photographers (amateurs, hobbyists, professionals) are flocking in droves to products where the publishers and developers keep them involved and informed. They're not just going to the biggest visible brand name, they're MIGRATING there AWAY from the alternatives. That's pretty telling.

I just bought Lightroom 3 for $70 during a sale on B&H. I look forward to trying it out and seeing if it suits my purposes well enough to leave these politics behind.

[GoremanX]

Here's what making your customers aware of current and future developments does:

- it keeps customers looking forward to those developments
- it reassures customers that they haven't been left behind with a silently abandoned product (and how many times have we seen that happen?)
- it reassures customers that the features we NEED will be added in the near future (30 MP hard limit?!? So are upcoming Nikon D800 shooters just screwed?)
- it makes customers feel more involved with their workflow tools, thereby bringing a greater satisfaction with their choice of workflow
- it shows respect to customers by letting them know that their feedback is being catered to rather than just falling on deaf ears
- it adds an interactive element to the customer/publisher relationship, instead of just the old "gimme money/here's your software" model

Have you ever dealt with a local camera manufacturer representative who answers your questions about your gear, future developments, and how it might improve your business? I have, it's a fantastic experience. Snap-On and Mac Tools do the same thing with mechanics, and it works great.

Here's the opposite end of the spectrum:

- create token social media pages which rarely get updated
- have a U2U forum where no official statements are ever made, except clandestinely by devs in disguise or cryptically by NDA'd beta testers
- conduct secret beta tests of new features without consulting with your actual customers
- forbid any mention of upcoming developments, because customers don't need to know that crap, it serves no purpose
- spring a surprise release and/or patch that doesn't fix any of the known problems, but adds new features no-one asked for, because the developers know better and everyone else should just shut up (sound familiar? That was Bibble's modus operandi near the end)
- make any patches obscure and hard to find, and don't announce them, so that only customers who are desperate for a fix will find them (that seems to be the Corel way)
- when customers ask for a way to stay informed, call them names and ridicule them because you know better and they should just shut up

[afx]

To quote you:
"Dare I mention the secret transition from Bibble to AfterShot that took us all by surprise and wreaked havoc with our workflow?"
What would any advance communication have changed for the users?
Nothing. Nada, Zilch.
Because no matter when it was announced, the changes you need to adjust to are the same.

So what you're saying is, the status quo is good. The level of information we receive is more than adequate.

Nope. I did not say that.
As I wrote above, communication could be better.

No-one would have appreciated knowing what was going on with our chosen workflow ahead of time, because you've deemed it completely unnecessary from a practical perspective.

What would have been the benefit?

And the part where you said I was complaining about user plugin repositories was gibberish. Have I got it about right?

????

That's a very interesting point of view, especially from someone who already has inside knowledge to begin with and isn't left in the dark.

You are making a lot of assumptions.

You've publicly stated that you're part of the team of secret beta testers with inside knowledge. You have official inside knowledge that you occasionally dribble out as cryptic hints. In my opinion, that gives official weight to these statements.

A fan of conspiracy theories are you?
Go out shoot some images.....

cheers
afx

[GoremanX]

And the part where you said I was complaining about user plugin repositories was gibberish. Have I got it about right?

????

I'll quote you for your benefit:

...
And complaining that users have set up a repository for plugins is surely the right way to go.
Yes, there could be more communication. But you are complaining about the wrong things.
...

and as for:

A fan of conspiracy theories are you?

ah yes, the name-calling continues. I didn't say you were part of a conspiracy. What I said was that I consider anything you state as having official weight because of the status you've publicly claimed. That's not a conspiracy theory.

[pesto126]

Goreman.. I'm with you on this... While I don't expect to be spoonfed info... I like companies that take the time to discuss info with their customers and respond directly to their requests and suggestions. It doesn't take much to setup a blog and have an employee provide some info about the comings and goings of the product. Seems like the independent developers do a MUCH better job of this.. and they are typically a 1-3 man/women team. Just take a look at Idimager and Sagelight.. 2 fantastic examples of developers that keep their customers at the top of their lists.

I'm not opposed to social media either and think it can be a useful tool... but requiring someone to "like" a professional company so we can monitor tweets or "friending" them so we can find out info is not really the best way to communicate to a professional community. Blogs, RSS feeds, newsletters and forums are a much more appropriate venue and important for sure.

Just my thoughts... feel free to have your own.. now that I know about facebook, I'll for sure follow any discussions there.. but would encourage Corel to think about other approaches as mentioned above. Peace!

[tundraquad]

What's the matter? How simple can it be: We turn on the computer, we open the ASP application and then ... "A new update is available" ... then, "Click Here to install".
If we want detailed info about the update, we go to the software web site or forum and in the "General info" section (or "Getting started" section) we can see a post "ASP 5.2.3 Just Released" or "Latest Version: ASP 5.2.3".

Does the above remind you something?
Bibble did it perfectly! No need to create profiles on facebook, twitter or whatever!
Did anyone missed an update at the time of Bibble??

cheers

[SteveCase]

Did anyone missed an update at the time of Bibble??

cheers

Well there were those that didn't follow the B5 forum and missed the $15 chance for ASP. Check for updates didn't always work on my installations. Rather hit or miss actually. Even having an account with valid address never guaranteed one would receive correspondence from Bibble Labs/Corel.

As to some other comments.....
Large companies put out the regular blurbs to keep the sheeple from straying too far from the fold. ( I don't think it is a bad thing. I just believe that it is done more for the benefit of the company, not the user. ) Small companies put it out in hopes of increasing the user base. ( They tend to have rather stable users and need to increase the programs exposure to new users to increase the bottom line. ) For a small company there comes a point where they could fail to get enough income and fall so far behind the curve from lack of resources, that all the can hope for is that they have enough innovation to be of interest to a larger company. ( This is where info begins falling into a black hole of NDA's and corporate lawyers. ) We were rather lucky to have several of the ASP/B5 beta gang willing to continue helping as best they could on the B5 forum for all those months.

As for hints of upcoming stuff....
If I didn't own airtight international rights to something, I sure as heck wouldn't make it public until released.

Release dates....
Company A posts 3 weeks. Company B reads this and cracks the whip on their programmers for a release in 2 weeks! Result? Users of A and B all get a rushed, not close to ready, release because A then went and rushed to beat their release date. Keep me in the dark and give me something useable when it goes public.

[GoremanX]

Release dates....
Company A posts 3 weeks. Company B reads this and cracks the whip on their programmers for a release in 2 weeks! Result? Users of A and B all get a rushed, not close to ready, release because A then went and rushed to beat their release date. Keep me in the dark and give me something useable when it goes public.

I guarantee you that every large company already knows exactly what's going on in the development of competing products, including approximate release dates and new features. Having worked in the industry before, I'm well aware that this kind of information is available despite all the NDAs in the world, and it's always in a company's best interest to be aware of these things ahead of time, so they use the resources required to get that information.

Keeping quiet about it publicly is only an old tradition brought on by outdated values and beliefs. It only keeps the development process hidden from customers.

[pesto126]

and... its not updates I'm concerned about. Its things like:
a) hints/tricks to using the software - something a blog is perfect for
b) upcoming features (yeah... like releasing this info is going to cause the competitors to stop what they are doing and start developing their own solution to that same feature?)
c) feedback by the developers in the forums (they create the software and know exactly what it can/cannot do and have the power to implement new ideas)

[GoremanX]

EXACTLY! That's precisely the type of thing I'd love to have.

[pesto126]

I doubt it will ever happen though... some companies are completely "with it" in terms of customer feedback while others bury their heads in the proverbial development sand and keep themselves apart. They rely on user-to-user boards (Hey - like this one!) which to be honest is free help (!) and they shield themselves from any communication issues. Worked great 15 years ago... doesn't work so well now.

[silvershoes]

How telling that someone who's never posted on this forum before suddenly decides to join up just to reply to this thread... did you do a random search for it? Or was it sheer luck that you came upon this discussion right off?

You can call me all the childish names you want (spoonfed crybaby? ...indeed), but the fact remains that photographers (amateurs, hobbyists, professionals) are flocking in droves to products where the publishers and developers keep them involved and informed. They're not just going to the biggest visible brand name, they're MIGRATING there AWAY from the alternatives. That's pretty telling.

I just bought Lightroom 3 for $70 during a sale on B&H. I look forward to trying it out and seeing if it suits my purposes well enough to leave these politics behind.

If anyone is indulging in politics, you are. Yes, I'm new to this board, but not others. As it happens, I'm a professional photographer (if someone who actually sells their work fits the definition), and I resent you attempting to speak for me when you don't have a clue.

I hope Lightroom works for you, but there are plenty of politics on the Adobe side as well. These board antics won't help you with the pros there either. Those who can - shoot. Those who can't - pitch fits. Good luck with that.