Audio Lost with Transitions

[Stuggyduggy]

I am using VSP X3 Pro on a Windows 7 Professional 64bit PC. Input video files are AVCHD from a Canon SX 210s camera.

Picture format is QuickTime 1280x720, 24bit, frame rate 29.97, sound 16bit little Endian, 48000kHz, 16bit stereo. Files copied from an SD card.

I find that if I insert transition effects I lose the original recorded audio from that point forward in the clip that follows. If I do not use transition effects then the audio is fine. If I subsequently remove the transition then the audio is restored. It appears the transitions are the root cause of the problem. Identical problem if I use my Windows 7 32 bit laptop. The audio track remains visible in the timeline even when no sound can be heard.

Based on a previous suggestion I've used a workaround by converting the clips to a different format before editing. Using AVI, the audio in clips following a transition file is not lost but the video quality is seriously degraded.

I've reinstalled the software & all the three available patches. The problem has been around ever since I moved to my new PC on Windows 7.

Any suggestions?

[teknisyan]

Can you tell us what transition are you using that is conflicting with the audio or the problem happens no matter what transition you are using? Also have you tried updating the codecs on your computer? If not... Here are some of the codecs that you may want to install.
RealPlayer: http://www.real.com/
DivX: http://www.divx.com/en/software/divx-plus/codec-pack
XviD: http://downloads.xvid.org/downloads/xvidcore-1.3.2.zip
Windows Media Player: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/wind ... dia-player or just download the Windows Encoder at http://www.microsoft.com/expression/pro ... rview.aspx
QuickTime: http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/
Direct X: http://on-msn.com/aLrk0j (WinXP)
Direct X: http://www.microsoft.com/Windows/window ... tx-11.aspx

[skier-hughes]

I wonder if it is the type of audio that is causing the problem.
What happens if you put the audio ona seperate audio track, unlocking it from the video?
If that doesn't work, how about just converting the audio to something like a wav file, and try again.

[Stuggyduggy]

In response to Abiel Corel NA's suggestions I've tried a variety of transitions & also the random selection option. In all cases I get the loss of audio in the clip after the transition.

I don't understand the need for updating/ extending the range of codecs available because the audio from the camera plays fine in VSP Pro X3 & until transitions are inserted & also in WMP. Surely that means that my PC has the appropriate codecs already available. If this were not the case I would get an error message or no audio. It must be VSP that is doing something to the audio track at the transition to make it unplayable.

Of the codecs & players listed I'm sure I've got up to date copies of codecs linked to , WMP. Quick Time & Direct X.

[Stuggyduggy]

I've carried out some exploration on the suggestion from skier-hughes to separate the audio. This transferred the audio into the Voice Track. I'm not knowledgeable about this aspect of VSP but found out that in clip mode I could highlight & successfully play either the video or audio for a clip in the timeline. If I chose project mode & tried to play a single clip or several clips to get audio & video together I got two different responses: either the cursor flipped almost immediately to the end of the timeline without playing anything or I got the error message unable to load string. If I compiled the clips into an output file a transient file with zero bytes was created but then disappeared & nothing permanent was generated.

Re the second suggestion to convert to a WAV file this seems to me as an occasional editor of video a touch too tedious & hence unattractive. Having to split the video, saving to a file, converting to WAV & then inserting back into the project. At the conclusion there will presumably be a blank at the transitions.

An odd problem as nobody else seems to have reported it.

[skier-hughes]

I don't normally use VS as my editor, but I've just dropped a dv.avi SD clip on the timeline, r/c split audio, it went off to the voice over as you say.
Clicking on the audio track just plays the audio, clicking on the video track just plays the video, but if you click on an empty track it plays both at the same time.

Converting would be done by dropping the video file into an audio editor or file convertor, saving out as a wav file and inserting, still tedious, but not as long winded as your method.

Try the above and see.

[lata]

Hi Stuggyduggy

The problem with audio playing and Flipping the curser has been mentioned on the forum before.
Unfortunately I cannot remember the actual post but think that converting to another format was the only fix.
-------------------------
AUDIO
To convert/create an audio file, place the video clip in the timeline select Share – Create Sound File, will create a sound file of the entire project.
A thumbnail will be placed in the library, drag to the timeline below video, mute the video.
-------------------------
If you are going to this extent then I think it best to batch convert the video to mpeg4

MPEG-4 Files
24 bits, 1280 x 720, 29.97 fps
Frame-based
H.264 Main Profile Video: 5000 Kbps
44100 Hz, 16 Bit, Stereo
MPEG AAC Audio: 128 Kbps

------------------------
Your canon camera seems to create a video file similar to my 7D. I do not have problems with these types, they use the compression H264
If you right click a clip in the timeline and select Properties you may notice that the Compression details are empty? If not what are they?
You can create an image of the window and attach to your post.
------------------------
Codec’s
The camera should have software included, have you installed these. Doing so may install the correct codec’s for the canon video files.

[skier-hughes]

I forgot to mention on codecs, when you install one it goes to the top of the list, installing another similar, this will go to the top of the list and be picked up by the editing programme if it thinks it is the right one.
By reintalling the correct one you bump it back to the top.

[lata]

Hi Graham

Interesting, I am not too clever in understanding codecs, they exist some where on my pc.
So where is the list? And can you sort the list order to give priority?
I have in the past used codec Detectives to scan the pc.

So installing Codec packs may take priority over the correct one, not that I have ever installed one.

The audio problem may be a red herring, we had a guy having all sorts of audio problems, till we found his video frame size was non standard, render to the correct frame size cured that.

Stuggyduggy
Are you able to make a sample available so I can try on my pc. You do say that you have tried on another laptop so I guess the computers are ok, but willing to give it a go.

[skier-hughes]

That's a very very very basic view!!!
But essentially correct.
You install the correct H264 codec that came with the camera, you install the latest quicktime which includes an H264 codec. If it's close to what is needed, then yes, it gets picked up and used.
One reason for not installing codec packs, and for me saying to go to the codec manufacturer and download just their correct one.

[Stuggyduggy]

Quite a lot of activity on this issue. Thanks for all the ideas etc . I've tried to respond to all of them.

Re the post from skier-hughes of Feb 21 I've been completely unable to play audio & video from a clip with separated audio. I've tried on both my desktop & laptop. However note my comment further down re VSP Pro X4.

I've tried reinstalling ProX3 without the updates but it fell over when I tried to compile an output file.

I've installed updated drivers from Canon to try & ensure that the optimal codecs are top of the list but this has not helped.

I've tried converting to MPG4 using VSP - changing the defaults to 29.97fps & setting frame size to the max of 720x576 which is less than my raw clips (the user defined option is greyed out). Transitions worked fine but picture quality visibly degraded presumably a combination of the reduced pixels & decompression & recompression.

Re file compression: video is not shown in properties, audio is 16 bit Little Endian, 48,000Khz 16 bit stereo. I've attached a screen shot of the properties box

I also tried installing VSP Pro X4 on my laptop (Win 7/ 64bit) & it functioned perfectly in respect of the issues I've had - audio after transitions, playing clips with separated audio. Unfortunately I cannot trial it on my desktop because I used up my 30d trial period some months ago when I was rather busy, didn't have any video to edit & so didn't do much trialling.

I'm rather reluctant to pay for another upgrade because I haven't had much value out of VSP Pro X3, Corel software is notoriously buggy, Corel have had quite a lot of cash out of me for upgrades - I had about four upgrades since starting on Ulead Video 7, their software is never future proofed & needs updating as new file formats etc come along.

In summary my options to-date are:
accept no transitions,
convert to MPEG4 & get transitions but loose video quality,
possibly use the tedious process of extracting the audio convert outside VSP & then re-combine
upgrade to VSP Pro X4 rewarding Corel for their technical failings
try different software.

Any further ideas?

I treied uploading three 5sec original clips but the site will not accept them

Stewart

[lata]

Hi Stewart

Converting your video file.

By the way you did not say what you are trying to make, I assume a video for the internet.?
If its DVD then we should consider using DV-Avi

Use Settings-Make Movie Templates Manager to create your own Mpeg4 template

You should be able to set the properties I posted earlier:-

From Make Movie Manager choose:-
New
File Format Mpeg4 Files
Give it a name, then OK
Compression Tab—Video Type as H264 Main
General Tab—frame rate 29.9 type Frame Based
Frame size to 1280 x 720
Back to Compression tab-Video Data rate 5000

Ok and Close
The template will be available adjacent to Share Create video File – Custom.

Do those settings create a quality video?

Any further ideas? well yes, there was an issue with playing Mov types after installing the X3 patch.
But this was not associated with transitions, the audio in project playback stuttered, one poster described it “Like a Heartbeat” sample on You Tube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCFOHMdd6sk
view the full video…………

The fix is to re-install X3 without the patch.

Next-clutching at straws………
Smart Proxy
Disable and delete the proxy files via Proxy Manager
----------------------
And I assume you are using NTSC and not PAL?

[Stuggyduggy]

I am trying to make DVD quality video. I have previously tried converting to AVI first & then editing. This gave good transitions but the final video had degraded picture quality.

Setup the MPEG4 template & this produced good quality video when no transitions used. With transitions in place I still get the loss of audio in the following clip problem.

I may have missed something but I'm not sure where this template is supposed to help out as it is not available to do clip conversion before editing. I have the lost audio issue even if I play the timeline in project mode when transitions are in place before generating the output file. The problem arises as soon as a transition is inserted & goes away when it is removed.

As noted in a previous post if I install X3 without any patches it fell over when I tried to produce an output file.

I have no files in Smart Proxy Manager to delete.

The camera is set to PAL not NTSC - I live in UK.


Stewart

[skier-hughes]

What sort of avi file did you make? There are well over 800 different types, as avi is just a wrapper and can contain mp4, mp2, mp3, divx, xvid files as well as the dv ones.

[lata]

Hi Stewart

First activate / enable smart proxy.
Start a new project and add your clips to the timeline.
Smart Proxy files should be created, view the proxy queue and file managers.
Takes a while to create these files. Does using proxy files improve things.

I had assumed video for the internet so mentioned MP4
But strange that you are having the same problem with these MP4 files?

Update Quick Time to the latest version, if you haven’t done this then please do so.

Direct X although windows auto updates are used manually updating Direct X has cured some strange issues .
Download this file http://www.microsoft.com/download/en/de ... px?id=8109
Run to extract contents, create a folder on your desktop,
Run the file DXSETUP.exe to install.

Creating a DVD
Your video files ultimately have to be converted to Mpeg2 as that’s the type of files used on a dvd.
I recommend that you convert your video to DV-Avi, this is a lossless format best suited for further editing. After which you convert/burn a Mpeg2.

Using Make movie Templates Manager to make:-

Name it as DV-AVI

Microsoft AVI files
24 bits, 720 x 576, 16:9, 25 fps
Lower Field First
DV Video Encoder -- type 1
PCM, 44.100 kHz, 16 Bit, Stereo

The details in the manager immediately before closing should be as above.

One question, have you ever added installed a Codec Pack to your pc.