Suggested work flow for digital photos

[woodchuck]

Hello,

I have used PSP since version 7 but mostly for graphics. I have recently purchased a dslr camera and upgraded to PSP X4. I am slowly learning some of the photo editing features but would like imput on the best workflow for "fixing" digital photos. I am aware that all digital photos need some sharpening and some noise removal. My question is this -- should the sharpening and noise removal be after other adjustments (brightness, clarify etc.) or should those come first? I should mention that I have been shooting all pictures in RAW.

Thanks for any suggestions you are willing to share with this newbie to photo editing.

Woodchuck

[MarkZ]

I should mention that I have been shooting all pictures in RAW.

Thanks for any suggestions you are willing to share with this newbie to photo editing.

Woodchuck

Woodchuck:

Since you are shooting in RAW, you may wish to look into Corel's new product, AfterShot Pro. PSP X4 does not do a great job of converting RAW to JPG, some say it is awful. ASP is primarily a non-destructive RAW editing program with a very good (compared to PSP) file management system. I've used various versions of PSP for quite a few years and since getting ASP have used this program more and more. PSP has functionality that is not part of ASP so the two complement each other but since I also shoot RAW I start with ASP and when needed follow with PSP; most often I don't even open PSP now.

The Corel AfterShot Pro discussion board is very lively with very experienced users/programmers discussing every aspect of the program. Earlier today I read a thread discussing just what you asked about - what is the best workflow. The comment was made that noise correction should be done early on to avoid amplification of any effects - at least that is how I understood it. http://forum.corel.com/EN/viewtopic.php ... 60#p240960. You will find many other opinions; from my experience you develop a workflow as you go along that works best for you.

[JStanley]

deleted

[brucet]

I also use and recommend ASP.
For me it's ASP to do the basic work on my RAW files then save as 16 bit tifs.
In PSPx4 I do the following. (Keep in mind that not all photos are the same so you need to be flexible).
Levels.
Fill Light/Clarity.
Curves.

Then subjcet to the results I'll look at noise.
Then subject to final use I look at USM.

This gives me a good basic result. All small details are then attended to on a copy of the original file.

Regards

[Tadjio]

My question is this -- should the sharpening and noise removal be after other adjustments (brightness, clarify etc.) or should those come first? I should mention that I have been shooting all pictures in RAW.

The 'received wisdom' on this is that you should do Noise Removal as early as possible (ideally in the Raw Conversion), before the other adjustments and do Sharpening near the end. This is how it is done in many PSP Scripts such as OneStepPhotoFix.

I have read what MarkZ, JStanley and others have written. Like MarkZ I am a long-standing user of PSP who is attracted to AfterShot Pro (ASP) and I am using ASP increasingly, occasionally calling PSP as an External Editor. The Raw Conversion in PSP is useless and very destructive. I used to use Canon's DPP but now ASP does a very good job of Raw Conversion and basic Editing.

Interestingly, ASP has a built-in pipeline of steps, with Raw Noise Reduction as the very first one, before Raw Demosaicing, closely followed by Noise Ninja, and Sharpening near the end, followed by Color and Curves adjustments.

[woodchuck]

Thanks to all of you for your valuable suggestions. I am especially pleased to learn about ASP even though my original question was about when to apply sharpening and noise removal. Looks like most of you prefer noise removal near the beginning and USM near the end.

The software provided with my Canon camera has been useless. I cannot get EOSutility to open and have been on the phone with Canon support for hours trying to solve the problem. I've tried all their suggestions and have not been successful. I'm still on Windows XP (sp3) and that might be the problem. I'm just not in a position to upgrade this ancient computer. So . . I believe ASP might be my best solution. I plan to download a trial and give it a whirl.

The other possibility might be PhotoShop. I am currently taking a class in photography at a university so I believe I can purchase CS5 for $160 (the student price). Then again, I'm not sure my aging computer could handle it. And then there is the whole thing of learning new software. At my photo class we saw a 3 hour demo of CS5 and I was pleasantly surprised to see how similar it is to PSP at least for the basic photo editing features.

Regards,
Woodchuck

[pdxrjt]

For my 2 cents, think about exposure, white balance, color, noise reduction in your RAW editor (search for workflow raw photos and you'll get good info.) I also do not use PSP for RAW conversion. I think ASP is pretty useless and there are much better programs out there, but that is a matter of personal choice. You may find that you can do much of what you want within the RAW conversion program.

[teknisyan]

Here's what I do... no matter what RAW editor I'm using.

noise removal > levels > sharpening (if needed) > clarify > crop (if needed)

[brucet]

Keep in mind that many actions will or can introduce artifacts. I often apply noise reduction near the end so that some of these artifacts get 'smoothed' out. A good example is noise/artifacts in the paint work of a car. If you look at the samples on my web site you will see the results of noise reduction as an 'almost' last step.

http://cre8ivephotography.com

The web photos are poor jpegs but it should give you an idea what can be acheived with the noise tools. I do a selection on areas rather than the whole photo. I've also compared blur/smoothing etc and have found noise reduction works best. Maybe it's not its intended use but it works or me.

Remeber that you have to treat every photo on an individual basis. That's why I hate presets and scripts. (I do use some presets but only for basic stuff).

Regards

[Joelle]

Hello,

I have used PSP since version 7 but mostly for graphics. I have recently purchased a dslr camera and upgraded to PSP X4. I am slowly learning some of the photo editing features but would like imput on the best workflow for "fixing" digital photos. I am aware that all digital photos need some sharpening and some noise removal. My question is this -- should the sharpening and noise removal be after other adjustments (brightness, clarify etc.) or should those come first? I should mention that I have been shooting all pictures in RAW.

Thanks for any suggestions you are willing to share with this newbie to photo editing.

Woodchuck

Here is a good link:
http://loriweb.pair.com/nightingail/tut ... ction.html

Joëlle

[Imjinman]

Sort of related...

But with all this discussion about what RAW editor to use (ASP, Canon, etc) and people seem to know what they are talking about here, would one expect the different RAW editors to display the colors differently depending on how they 'interpret' the RAW data.

As from my other posts, I am having problems selecting a RAW editor (Picasa, PSP, Lightroom and Olympus Viewer 2) as they all display RAWs differently. At the moment I do not know which one to choose as I do not know which one is 'correct', or if I need to set something up in my Win 7.

Am I chasing an impossible nirvana to get them to be the same?

I want to ensure that my resulting TIFF/JPEG is 'right' before editing further in PSP 4.

Any help would be great...or please point me somewhereto read further.

Thanks!

[brucet]

I think you are on Mission Impossible.
As far as I know all RAW editors have different algorithms and thus different results.

My advice is to find a RAW editor that you are comfortable with and learn to use it. ASP has it's 'funny' side and it's just a matter of working with those 'funny' issues.

Regards

[Imjinman]

Thank you- but technically then, if:

- I produce a TIFF from ASP, and a TIFF from Lightroom using the same source RAW
- And both these resulting TIFFs look the same on my monitor
- Logically the RAW files have been modified more in one system than the other eg if the RAW looks darker in ASP then I will have to brighten it more in ASP to match the Lightroom TIFF
- Then if I send both TIFFs to you, they will look different to each other on your PC?

Or perhaps I am just mildly confused!

[Tadjio]

But with all this discussion about what RAW editor to use (ASP, Canon, etc) and people seem to know what they are talking about here, would one expect the different RAW editors to display the colors differently depending on how they 'interpret' the RAW data.

As from my other posts, I am having problems selecting a RAW editor (Picasa, PSP, Lightroom and Olympus Viewer 2) as they all display RAWs differently. At the moment I do not know which one to choose as I do not know which one is 'correct', or if I need to set something up in my Win 7.

Each Raw Converter will be different. and will also depend on any processing you apply (even by default).
I think a good way to check the 'result' is to shoot in RAW+JPG and compare the resulting RAW Image with the JPG from the camera.

(Note with Canon's DPP you will retain the 'Picture Style' whereas other Raw Conversions will not).

[woodchuck]

Thank you, Joelle, for the very useful link. It was exactly what I had in mind.

Brucet, thanks also for your link. Your work is amazing.

For those who mentioned that ASP is pretty useless or not their choice for a RAW converter -- What is your RAW converter of choice?

Regards, Woodchuck